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Parking charge notice, From Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd
Jruss42
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:04
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I would really appreciate some sound advice as I have been searching the web and YouTube clips regarding a parking charge notice.

Ok, some background. The landlord is an housing association and live in a flat with parking provided on an estate. Recently, the landlord knowingly or unknowingly has allowed cleaning contractors to park their vehicles in the resedential areas and occupying a number of spaces and thus reducing the allotted spaces for paying tenants. This has been disputed with the landlord who has agreed this is unacceptable and are in the process of addressing this.

Now the concerns. returning home Late one evening approx. 2 am in the morning and unable to find any parking spaces on the estate due to contractor vehicles occupying spaces And therefore had no choice but to park in the only bay available (which was a disabled bay). In the morning, making sure to get up early and move the vehicle to not cause any issues with those that might require it. Returning at 7 am in the morning only to find a parking charge notice. The details of this ‘invoice’ was issued at 4 am in the morning. Reason for issue: parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK LTD permit (at time of enforcement). Charge is £100 discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days. Photographic evidence was taken and provided.

Now, as I said earlier, The car was parked in the disabled bay as 14 spaces were occupied by business vehicles to which they do not have written permission to do by the landlord.

The land is private property belonging to my landlord who has also allowed PCM to operate and enforce.

I have read and searched and so on and I have also read the first read this before posting etc. Very helpful and really good advice.

So, there are plenty of signs and are visible. The markings are clear. Even though this is the case, and I have no doubt that the landlord will just say it has nothing to do with them after they address the issue of the contractors vehicles and say I have to dispute this with PCM.

I have in my panic gone to their website and clicked on the appeal web form so I can inform them I refuse to pay and I did not provide my details (name, address etc) and therefore I am not appealing but telling them I refuse to pay.

what I want to know. Plain and simple, should I pay? I have no contract with them, I do not accept any offer, the invoice value is not justified.

Also, should I ignore all correspondence from now on in?

As far as I am aware their invoice is not enforceable.

Apologies if this is not making any sense but I am sick to death with stressing over this, it’s the principle of this that I am fighting this and will go all the way.
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post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:04
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Jruss42
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:31
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Hi,

Been a while!

So I have received a letter from Trace - Debt Recovery UK ltd advising the debt has been passed to them because I have an outstanding matter with their client.

They go on to say - our client is now assessing cases on their merits for enforcement through the county court. Your case is now under review

If I don’t pay the full amount they will instruct a solicitor to take this to court which will incure further charges.

They then say this will affect credit ratings etc. And urge me to consider the consequences and lots of don’t ignore this letter.

Please let me know your thoughts ?

Many thanks
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cabbyman
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 18:31
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Did you send the letter, or similar, that you were discussing in post #10? Please post the final draft of that letter so we know what we are working with. There may be grounds for complaint/action and taking the fight to them.

Is this the first you have heard since? As a debt collector, they are toothless and can be ignored until you get a letter before claim/action.



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Law Wannabe
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 22:49
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Hi

I am not an expert but I just wanted to tell you about an exact situation I helped with 2 years ago. I am sorry I can't remember all the details but I am hoping someone on here can expand on what I say.

A friend of mine was renting a flat on a privately owned estate in Middlesex and parked in his own bay one evening about midnight - there were signs big signs but not well lit. He received a PCN at 4am
from PCM for not displaying his permit which had slipped down inside. He appealed as he lives there but it was rejected and he got letters from TRACE, he carried on appealing and then got a notice for court.


In the meantime I researched it and found a clause in an Act (this is where I am unsure of which Act) but it was covered lettings and the binding contracts between the landlord and the tenant.

It clearly stated that it was a landlords duty to disclose any third party that he had authorised to carry out any service on the premises to the tenant. It stated this should be somewhere in the itinerary.
It also stated in his agreement that he was supplied with a parking space as part of his agreement but stated nothing about having to display a permit to receive this.
We also argued that the parking control and signage were there to mitigate the land owners loss, so as big as the signage was it was a deterrent for non-residents. As he was a
tenant there was no loss.

It was also noted after chasing the estate agents that the permits were supplied by PCM who had a list of the registration numbers of the tenants and the PCN was addressed to the RK at the site, so PCM were
fully aware it was a resident in his own space. The RK also supplied a copy of the estate agent details and a link to the online advert where it clearly advertised 2 bed flat with parking space.

Eventually the whole thing was dropped by PCM after the estate agents got involved too.

No court and no payment.

I hope this helps and that someone else can explain the rest.
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 23:23
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Cabbyman is absolutely right. You can safely ignore anything from debt collectors at this stage. Do not, however, ignore a letter of/before action/claim.

In addition to responding to cabbyman’s question, what precisely does your tenancy agreement say about parking and third-party rights? Post anything which you think might be of relevance. Post the whole thing if you like (but make sure you redact any personal details first).

On the assumption that you have a right to park, my initial reaction is that, by failing to keep the bays free for the use of residents, your landlord or the manager of the development has derogated from your right to park by reducing the number of parking spaces available to residents. Was any notice given of the use of the parking spaces by the contractors?

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 23:25
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Jruss42
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 16:45
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Hi,

So with regards to the letter in post 10# it was pretty much what i used in the template with some minor amendments stating this would go to my MP and that i demand you to cease and desist. Copy appended below:

To whom it may concern

I am writing to you as the registered keeper of the vehicle **** and to confirm that I have no liability in this issue.

I demand you to cease and desist from your harassment in line with the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 which is causing me stress and is spoiling my quiet enjoyment of the property and that as an agent of the landowner that would leave you and the landowner liable to a claim.

My lease gives me the unfettered right to have a car parked in the car park and as such you cannot offer me anything, this means there can be no contract between you (PCM) and myself as in the case of Saeed v Plustrade and Jopson v Homegaurd.

As you have failed to comply with the strict requirements with Protection of Freedom Act 2012, you could not in any case hold the keeper liable for the drivers’ actions and if you dispute any of the above you should dispute it with the driver, who I will not be naming but who is aware of your claim. I am in my right to decline to name the driver and any presumption that the keeper is the driver will be strongly refuted.

As I have no liability to you, I demand that my details are removed from your data files under the requirements of the Data Protection Act. This request is to be taken as a request under section 10 of the ACT (Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress) and I therefore require confirmation of removal within 21 days. Failure to comply with this demand will result in a complaint to the ICO and DVLA for breach of the KADOE agreement.

Therefore, I expect that this issue (and any associated charges) cancelled and that you respond to me confirming as such within 21 days of the receipt of this letter.

You should also note that I am now tracking costs in this matter.

A copy of this letter will go to my MP and landlord for the stress and harassment (which is a criminal offence) this is now causing me. This is harassment of tenants’ rights to park their vehicles near their homes from a company my landlord has requested to operate within and on private land.

I have in the mean-time asked my landlord to inform me how I can opt out of the permit ‘regime’ and that I do not recognise any authority or alleged ‘contract’ from PCM, who cannot re-offer parking spaces already granted in my lease which is a derogation from grant.

I am doing this as keeper and NOT the driver.


Following this my landlord did not respond at all.

However, my MP did say they were making representation on my behalf. Unfortunately, PCM responded to my MP and me and my MP said i should go through the appeal process.

PCM had presented my MP with their evidence of the vehicle being parked where it was and addressed the my concerns with there reason for the PCN:

1, Liability and harassment
2, Lease and right to park
3, Non-compliance with the protection of freedoms act 2012
4, Data protection

i will post their letter regarding this after redacting shortly.

Because of my very first response to PCM they stated that there is evidence in this response to say that i was the driver as i mentioned "i parked". This is not the case, in a panic we wrote a response and wasn't paying attention to who was writing the letter. Anyways, going at PCM with this initial letter, i then decided that i would go back to my MP with my evidence of the contractor vehicles that occupied parking 10 plus parking spaces including the building materials that occupied another 5 spaces totalling 15 spaces. Surely, as a resident i have rights over these contractors who on investigation have their own yard to park their vehicles.

On raising my concerns with my landlord initially, they made all contractor vehicles stop parking giving back the 10 spaces to residents and followed by clearing the contractor rubbish, yes it was just crap left over and sitting there for ages. They did all this within weeks (2-4 weeks).

On providing my MP with this information he has now made representation on my behalf again. This was said a month ago and my landlord seem to be dragging there feet. I contacted my landlord and asked for there assistance and cooperation with my MP.

You cannot take away 15 parking spaces and then expect residents to park their vehicles else where. The tenancy says no vehicles must be parked that are for business purposes only and the fact they hurried them off would suggest they knew this was not right.

Also, prior to all this, My landlord had yellow lined a lot of areas where cars used to park, i would say that made 20 cars having to use other areas or forcing them to use the parking spaces but they did not address the parking situation. They remove 20 parking spaces but did not provide 20 parking spaces else where and then allow contractors and materials occupy these spaces.

So that is my update. apologises for the lengthy and probably confusing reply.

At the end of the day, this is a clear derogation from grant and i await the court letter.

Thanks for all your advice and help it really is appreciated.
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Jruss42
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 16:48
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Believe it or not but I am close to taking them to court myself over this stressful situation.

I am making enquiries into seeking independent legal advice and representation.

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cabbyman
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 17:05
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Deep breath.......And relax.

You will find no better advice than you are getting here. Many lawyers have little or no experience with parking matters.

Others will be along shortly with more detailed advice, meantime, please post the letter you received from them as you mentioned in post #25 on Friday.

I know it's not easy but this is very, very winnable by you if you keep your nerve.


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Eljayjay
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 17:37
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As cabbyman says, "Deep breath.......And relax".

What is the document actually called that gives you a right to live in your home? In some of your posts, you call it "my lease". In others, you call it "my tenancy agreement". Stick to what it is actually known as.

The paragraph headed "Vehicle Parking" reproduced in post #3 may be the only part of the document which mentions "parking", but there may be other parts of the document that are also relevant. For example, is there anything in the document which gives someone, perhaps your landlord, the right to introduce rules and/or regulations? Is there anything in the document which governs third-party rights?

The best thing to do would be to post the entire document here so that we can read it for ourselves and then point out to you the parts which are helpful and, perhaps, the parts which are not so helpful. It is important for you to know the good and the bad so that nothing comes as a surprise in the event of the case going to court.

The priority here is to make sure that you have a strong defence against any formal claim. It is only when you have a strong defence that you should think about taking court action or submitting a counterclaim against the parking company.

Most of the posters on this forum recognise that many of the parking companies are parasites, particularly in residential parking cases. Do, however, bear in mind that someone has engaged the parking company to monitor the car park. So, on the face of it, the parking company is only doing its job and, in any claim made by you, you will need to convince a judge that the parking company has done something wrong. Succeeding in claims and counterclaims for, say, data protection breaches is a lottery. In addition, as your case does not involve a parking space specifically allocated to you, a claim or counterclaim for trespass is not an option.

So, stay calm, cool and collected and let's get the defence sorted first.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 17:40
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cabbyman
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 18:06
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The terms 'lease' and 'tenancy agreement' are interchangeable.


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Eljayjay
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:09
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Generically, I totally agree. At the same time, however, I would say that an individual document is usually referred to therein as one or the other, not both.

The more important point is, of course, what the document says.
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Jruss42
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:36
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Ok, I’m breathing ... seriously, these people!

Ok so please see attached the letter from PCM in response to my letter from post #10.

In haste and panic and anger a response was sent to PCM via their portal which they will take as an appeal but it was more as an efficient form of communication letting them know there will be no payment made to them.

As for taking them to court I wasn’t sure who I would be countering with this as it could be my landlord who allowed their contractor vehicles and building materials to occupy resident spaces which in turn lead to the damages and losses they feel they have incurred with no real estimate of this.
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Jruss42
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:17
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Following this letter from PCM which also followed a letter from my MP saying I should follow the appeal process I then write back to my MP disagreeing to this and providing further information with regards to the parking situation which I can attach here if you think that would help!

My MP has since made representation on my behalf again this time in relation to my landlord and the parking limitations due to their contractor vehicles and who have not responded as of yet and has now been over a month.
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Eljayjay
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:57
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The correspondence with your MP is largely irrelevant. The parking company is telling your MP that right is on their side, not yours. Your MP probably does not understand the rights and wrongs of the situation and, even if he did, he could not do anything to prevent the parking company from taking further action against you.

You need to focus on your defence and, if we are to help you, you need to help us. WE NEED TO SEE YOUR LEASE/TENANCY AGREEMENT.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:18
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Indeed, there are onlyu so many times we can ask fo rit
You either show us the agreement, or go through it AGAIN using the ideas above, and report back what is given.
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Jruss42
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 16:52
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Hi,

i dont know what is going on but i have been trying to upload the agreement for some time and keeps failing due to max upload size 56.29k. Also says attachment size used 1.9MB. will this reset ?
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cabbyman
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 16:57
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Host at TinyPic and post the [img] tags to this thread.


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Jruss42
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:24
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Hi,

Okay so i used that site and reduced them and then uploaded some of the pages but i have no upload left so cannot upload anymore. Not sure how you will view it as its tiny. literally.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:29
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Did they need reducing? I normally scan into my PC then upload to TinyPic and, by then copying and pasting the [IMG] tags, they reproduce on the thread at, or near, full size. Those you have posted are unreadable, as you suspected.


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Jruss42
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:34
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Cabbyman,

will the file limit increase again do you know so i can send full.

this is getting very tiresome. i don't understand why there is a limit.

appreciate your help.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:51
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When you upload to TinyPics, you get 4 boxes with links in them. The second box down is the img link. Copy it into the dialogue box on the forum. Then, when you hit 'Add Reply' at the bottom of the dialogue box, the images appear on the thread. You nearly got it right in post #37 but without the size reduction.

The limit on size of images posted directly to the forum, rather than through an external host, is to avoid using up all of the forum's limited bandwidth(?), I think! blush.gif

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:52


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