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Parking charge notice, From Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd
Jruss42
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:04
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I would really appreciate some sound advice as I have been searching the web and YouTube clips regarding a parking charge notice.

Ok, some background. The landlord is an housing association and live in a flat with parking provided on an estate. Recently, the landlord knowingly or unknowingly has allowed cleaning contractors to park their vehicles in the resedential areas and occupying a number of spaces and thus reducing the allotted spaces for paying tenants. This has been disputed with the landlord who has agreed this is unacceptable and are in the process of addressing this.

Now the concerns. returning home Late one evening approx. 2 am in the morning and unable to find any parking spaces on the estate due to contractor vehicles occupying spaces And therefore had no choice but to park in the only bay available (which was a disabled bay). In the morning, making sure to get up early and move the vehicle to not cause any issues with those that might require it. Returning at 7 am in the morning only to find a parking charge notice. The details of this ‘invoice’ was issued at 4 am in the morning. Reason for issue: parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK LTD permit (at time of enforcement). Charge is £100 discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days. Photographic evidence was taken and provided.

Now, as I said earlier, The car was parked in the disabled bay as 14 spaces were occupied by business vehicles to which they do not have written permission to do by the landlord.

The land is private property belonging to my landlord who has also allowed PCM to operate and enforce.

I have read and searched and so on and I have also read the first read this before posting etc. Very helpful and really good advice.

So, there are plenty of signs and are visible. The markings are clear. Even though this is the case, and I have no doubt that the landlord will just say it has nothing to do with them after they address the issue of the contractors vehicles and say I have to dispute this with PCM.

I have in my panic gone to their website and clicked on the appeal web form so I can inform them I refuse to pay and I did not provide my details (name, address etc) and therefore I am not appealing but telling them I refuse to pay.

what I want to know. Plain and simple, should I pay? I have no contract with them, I do not accept any offer, the invoice value is not justified.

Also, should I ignore all correspondence from now on in?

As far as I am aware their invoice is not enforceable.

Apologies if this is not making any sense but I am sick to death with stressing over this, it’s the principle of this that I am fighting this and will go all the way.
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post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:04
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:39
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QUOTE
what I want to know. Plain and simple, should I pay?


Absolutely NOT.

QUOTE
The landlord is an housing association and live in a flat with parking provided on an estate. Recently, the landlord knowingly or unknowingly has allowed cleaning contractors to park their vehicles in the residential areas and occupying a number of spaces and thus reducing the allotted spaces for paying tenants. This has been disputed with the landlord who has agreed this is unacceptable and are in the process of addressing this.


Read Saeed v Plustrade and have a go at the Managing Agent to cancel this PCN. The MA has removed 14 bays without justification, which is a derogation from grant and the loss/damages caused are their fault, like in this case:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2001/2011.html

http://swarb.co.uk/saeed-v-plustrade-ltd-ca-20-dec-2001/

DO NOT mention the disabled bay at all.

Also ask when they will be removing PCM altogether, as an unsuitable, aggressive ex-clamper firm has no place near residents cars and there is no need whatsoever for such a nuisance on site, which is not a service. Ask how to opt out of the permit 'regime' and tell the MA that you do not recognise any authority or alleged 'contract' from PCM, who cannot re-offer parking spaces already granted in your lease.

What does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking, or any 'restrictions' that the MA can introduce?

Please don't reply 'nothing' as if that's a bad thing...
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Jruss42
post Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 14:07
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Thank you so much for your speedy response. In answer to your question regarding tenancy agreement parking it reads:

Vehicle parking
You must not block any road, vehicle access or parking space. You must keep all these areas free from obstructions. Items such as caravans, boat, heavy industrial or building equipment or any vehicles used for business purposes (other than a motor car/ bike) should not be parked on the property or estate without the written permission of Triangle homes. You cannot bring any vehicle onto any part of our property if you cannot legally use it on the road. You may not repair other people’s vehicles anywhere on our property if they are paying you or giving you some other reward. You must make sure that anyone living with you or visiting you also keeps to these conditions.

I have already read this in my tenancy agreement when I appproched my landlord. However, the person I spoke with does not deal with this and said the appropriate person is back Monday and who I am going to see regarding this. I have already provided my landlord office with my concerns regarding their contractor vehicles parked taking up resident spaces and provided photographic eveidnece where the vehicles have been parked for days overnight and still remain.

Unfortunately, I had told my landlord in my letter to them of parking in the only bay available which was the Disabled bay. However, as you said, without justification is derogation from grant and the lose/ damages caused if their fault.

I am in the process of writing a letter for the residents to read and to receive their views on my landlord (housing association) allowing PCM he enforce tickets for paying tenants and the fact they have removed bays and expect us to park else where.

One last thing, today another neighbour mentioned they were ticketed today! Unbelievable. It’s nearly every day I hear someone getting a ticket.

I will have a read of the links you sent me. biggrin.gif
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Jruss42
post Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 17:37
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Just a quick update!

I have found out that other residents who have received PCN have refused to pay and to date have not made any payment. They have received visits from someone demanding payment but continue to refuse to pay. I am not sure who these people are that have demanded payment but I will find out. Tomorrow I will be making residents aware of the issues by my landlord regarding parking spaces and their rights.

As I have said, I will take this all the way based on the principle of this dispute between me and my landlord and PCM can disappear.

Hope everyone has enjoyed the lovely weather today. biggrin.gif

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Jruss42
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 18:52
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Hiya,

I’ve received a notice to keeper. (PCM Received info from DVLA under the protection of freedom act 2012). They are now demanding a payment for £100 to be payed within 28 days or the cost will go up to £160 due to instructing a debt recovery company and or solicitors to recover the amount. They talk about the contractual terms and conditions (I acknowledge no contract) for use of parking area clearly signposted on land in question.

It also talks about how to make payment or how to make representation against this notice.

The private parking company also say they are the agent of the landowner and have the right to seek payment of this parking charge.

Please advise on my next steps. Do I respond or ignore?

Many thanks for your help.
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 20:40
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QUOTE
They have received visits from someone demanding payment
Are you sure?

That never happens, except in this unlawful case in Leeds recently that's being investigated:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5837122

Respond to the letter mentioning Saeed v Plustrade and copy in the Managing Agent; they cannot derogate from grant.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 04:30
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QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
I’ve received a notice to keeper. (PCM Received info from DVLA under the protection of freedom act 2012). They are now demanding a payment for £100 to be payed within 28 days or the cost will go up to £160 due to instructing a debt recovery company and or solicitors to recover the amount.

They can say what they like, having any justification for it is different, if the signs make no mention of additional fees for debt recovery then they would have no legal basis for claiming them - and then only from the driver and not the keeper. You don't yet seem to have grasped that these aren't normal reputable businesses it is a legalised con.

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
They talk about the contractual terms and conditions (I acknowledge no contract) for use of parking area clearly signposted on land in question.

What else do you think they would say? That they have no actual right to demand money? Your lease trumps any contract they may have claim to have with you.

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
It also talks about how to make payment or how to make representation against this notice.

So, what else did you think it would say?

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
The private parking company also say they are the agent of the landowner and have the right to seek payment of this parking charge.

Again lease trumps and subsequent attempt to create a contract.

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
Please advise on my next steps. Do I respond or ignore?


You respond.

You inform them that your lease gives you the unfettered right to have your car parked in the car park and as such they cannot offer you anything, this means there can be no contract between you and them. Mention Jopson v Homeguard in this respect.

You also tell them to cease and desist from the harassment you are suffering that is spoiling your quiet enjoyment of the property and that as an agent of the landowner that would leave them and the landowner liable to a claim.

You inform them that as they have failed to comply with the strict requirements of PoFA they could not in any case hold the keeper liable for the drivers actions and if they dispute any of the above they should take it up with the driver, who you will not be naming but who is aware of their claim.

You do this as keeper (you have a Notice to keeper) NOT the driver.

If your landlord is no use then send them a cease and desist as well.

Landlords are notorious with respect to engaging private parking companies for singularly failing to understand their own legal obligations, they seem to be a total stranger to the concept of 'due diligence' they get offered a free service that looks to good to be true (guess what......), once any small level of car park abuse is resolved the only source of revenue is from the very people its meant to be there to help, the residents, both Co-op stores and Somerfield supermarkets found this out to their cost.

Its possible that the 'goons' demanding money with menaces were the ones doing the ticketing who are, of course, on a kick back per paid ticket, if they come to you just tell them to go away and shut the door, do not engage with them AT ALL, do not say anything, no explanation of anything at all. and I mean ANYTHING. Too many will get into a discussion and divulge information they shouldn't.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 15 May 2018 - 04:44


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Jruss42
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 19:46
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Fantastic guys, appreciate the help and advice.

I’ll draft my response the weekend and send them my response copying in my landlord.

Thank you.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 10:50
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Draft and let us see it smile.gif
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Jruss42
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 18:38
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Hey guys,

Apologies for the delay. please see my draft below. Please let me know your thoughts.



To whom it may concern

I am writing to you as the registered keeper of the vehicle *** and to confirm that I have no liability in this issue.

I request you to cease and desist from your harassment in line with the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 which is causing me stress and is spoiling my quiet enjoyment of the property and that as an agent of the landowner that would leave you and the landowner liable to a claim.

My lease gives me the unfettered right to have a car parked in the car park and as such you cannot offer me anything, this means there can be no contract between you (PCM) and myself as in the case of Saeed v Plustrade and Jopson v Homegaurd.

As you have failed to comply with the strict requirements with Protection of Freedom Act 2012, you could not in any case hold the keeper liable for the drivers’ actions and if you dispute any of the above you should dispute it with the driver, who I will not be naming but who is aware of your claim. I am in my right to decline to name the driver and any presumption that the keeper is the driver will be strongly refuted.

As I have no liability to you, I request that my details are removed from your data files under the requirements of the Data Protection Act. This request is to be taken as a request under section 10 of the ACT (Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress) and I therefore require confirmation of removal within 21 days. Failure to comply with this request will result in a complaint to the ICO and DVLA for breach of the KADOE agreement.

Therefore, I expect that this issue and any associated charges cancelled and that you respond to me confirming as such within 14 days of the receipt of this letter.

You should also note that I am now tracking costs in this matter.

A copy of this letter will go to my landlord for the stress and harassment (which is a criminal offence) this is now causing me. This is harassment of tenants’ rights to park their vehicles near their homes from a company my landlord has requested to operate within and on private land.

I have in the mean-time asked my landlord to inform me how I can opt out of the permit ‘regime’ and that I do not recognise any authority or alleged ‘contract’ from PCM, who cannot re-offer parking spaces already granted in my lease which is a derogation from grant.

I am doing this as keeper and NOT the driver.
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ostell
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 19:44
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DPA section 10 requires a response within 21 days so the confirmation should be within that 21 days and not the 14.
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 00:08
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Send a copy to your MP and get them up to speed with what is happening to residents. No-one will have 'had a visit' BTW.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 07:45
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You REQUIRE they cease and desist.
Never request. Demand.
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Jruss42
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 19:53
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Fantastic advice.

Thank you 🙏

I’ll get this amended with your comments and send to all including my MP, hopefully by Friday.

😊

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Jruss42
post Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 07:54
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Hi,

I have tried to Private message some of you guys but says box is full.... need to talk as I think this is now being watched ! Had a pm from someone newly joined saying they could help!

Please pm

Thanks
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ostell
post Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 08:16
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PMs are discouraged, hence full inboxes. So if they are watching then they can only learn that they are on a hiding to nothing. Be wary of contact from new joiners.
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Jruss42
post Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 13:20
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Hi,

Thanks and totally understand. The private message was saying that they could get me out of paying for the ticket if I lie and they could show me how!

Obviously I have ignored this... I have nothing to lie about, I am right and will, as I have said all along go all the way and I stand by my principles.

My MP has received my letter as did the PCN company re #post 10. The PCN company have reposnded to a letter from MP stating why they believe they are right to enforce and collect payment for their PCN. I now await my MP’s reply to their letter.

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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 08:32
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We never tell anyone to lie
Maybe tell us who the PM was from and the contents?
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Redivi
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 09:21
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As a general rule, don't accept offers of advice from anyone with less than 500 posts and a good reputation

You can get an idea of reputation from the quality of the advice in his/her posts

Advice to lie is always firmly stamped on by other members so you're absolutely right not to reply to that PM
It's very likely that it's from PCM or even Gladstones trying to identify the case and obtain information to use against you

Ostell's correct with his hint that the most regular members have full mailboxes and it's deliberate
They would otherwise receive so many messages that that they couldn't cope

This post has been edited by Redivi: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 09:21
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Jruss42
post Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 20:48
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Hi,

Please see appended below the PM from ppww



New Member

Group: Members
Posts: 0
Member No.: 97,664
Joined: 24 Apr 2018



I do have a solution for you on your parking problem, so long as you do not mind telling a lie to a private company.

It is not, I repeat NOT an offence to tell a lie other than when under oath or if being questioned under caution by the police.

This is an entirely civil matter and does not involve the courts or the police. So if you are OK with fibbing then I can tell you how to proceed and dodge the fine.

All the best

pw

This post has been edited by Jruss42: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 20:49
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