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£2000 of tickets - Permit expired without us knowing or being informed, Need help - have appealed but told to contact debt recovery or IAS
alfxlon
post Thu, 11 May 2017 - 15:32
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Hi Everyone,

I’d be really grateful if someone could help with this as it’s getting really stressful – 12 tickets each at £160 and mounting. I’ve trawled through the other threads to find exact answers but I’m still unclear what to.

Basically I park my car in my friend’s apartment car park (with permit displayed). My friend who owns the space is also named insured driver. Neither of us really use the car or see it that often as we both cycle or use public transport.

Anyway, I needed to use the car recently but found a load of tickets on it (from private parking management company). I had no idea what they were for so I phoned up the debt collection company who eventually told me it was because my permit had expired. We had no idea this had happened because our existing permit had no expiry date written on it. Also they never wrote to him telling him they’d expired the permit or issued him with a new one. Because my place (where vehicle is registered) is a building site at the moment I’m living at a forwarding address, all the notices came through late to me so was delayed in appealing.

Anyway for each of these tickets I get a separate correspondence. They’re now coming from a debt collection agency (TRACE) and now letters from solicitors Gladstone’s requesting payment (with increasing costs).

I wrote to the PCN company with the letter of appeal (see below) and they wrote back saying they are unable to process my appeal as my case is with one of their external debt collection agencies and I’d need to contact them. They say I can appeal through IAS (see response letter below).

My question is, what’s the best thing to do now? Should I appeal through IAS? Other options? £2000 plus seems excessive especially as they didn’t inform us or provide new permit!!

Would really appreciate any help

many thanks


<I anonymised the letter – I’m Mr C and registered Keeper. Mr S is owner of the car space and permit and insured driver on vehicle>

Dear Sir / Madam

Vehicle Registration Number: XYZ
Ticket References:
PCM Ref Date of Issue PCN ticket Description Reason later established by calling TRACE Debt recovery
PM1 07/10/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit No permit displayed
PM2 05/11/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM3 07/11/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM4 12/11/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM5 15/11/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM6 19/11/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM7 22/11/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM8 03/12/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM9 13/12/2016 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM10 11/01/2017 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM11 17/01/2017 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit
PM12 29/01/2017 Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd Permit Displaying expired permit

We are writing to appeal the above parking charges. Owing to the circumstances explained below we believe that the tickets have been unfairly issued because of administration issues of the parking management company (Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd) and other circumstances beyond our control.

We can confirm that ‘Mr S’ is resident owner in the building (address of building where tickets were issued managed by PCM) and owner of the parking space occupied by the vehicle (Registration XYZ). He is fully paid-up in terms of his building service charges which include financial contribution to the management of the car park and entitlement to a valid parking permit. ‘Mr C’ is the registered owner of the vehicle and we are close friends. ‘Mr S’ is a named insured driver on the vehicle (see attached evidence).

We note that all of the parking tickets except the first relate to “displaying an expired permit”. This information was only recently established (18/4/17) by contacting the debt recovery agency, TRACE as this information isn’t stated on any of the parking control notices or correspondences relating to the charges.

We can truthfully inform you that we had no awareness that the permit had expired. This is owing to three administration issues caused by the parking management company as follows:

1. The permit supplied by the parking management company that was displayed in the vehicle has no expiry date written on it (see photocopy evidence of permit supplied).
2. ‘Mr S’ received no correspondence from the parking management company informing him of the expiry of the existing permit.
3. ‘Mr S’ has not been supplied with a new permit.

As ‘Mr S’ pays for parking facilities through his service charge, we feel it’s reasonable to expect the parking management company to make adequate arrangements to inform him of the decision to invalidate his existing permit (given there was no expiry date on the permit) and provide him with a new one. This is something the parking management company failed to do. As a result neither of us was aware that the parking management company had invalidated the displayed permit and required us to display a new one.

It is relevant to inform you that the vehicle is rarely used or viewed by either of us as we generally cycle and / or use London public transport. Because of this, there became a build-up of tickets on the vehicle without us noticing. However, we note that not all of the tickets have been recovered from the vehicle as some appear to have been removed without our knowledge (we are not in possession of these tickets). A comprehensive list of ticket numbers has subsequently been established by phoning the number on debt recovery letters received at the registered owners address, ‘Mr C’, at <registered vehicle address>. However, these letters were received late owing to the property being under renovation and the charge notices arriving delayed (and in bulk) at ‘Mr C’s forwarding address at <Mr C’s forwarding address>.

Given the circumstances detailed above, I would be grateful if you could retract the charges relating to displaying an expired permit. In relation to the first charge (PM1), the permit had fallen down the dash and wasn’t displayed (as shown in the photographic evidence). This was our fault and we are happy to pay this charge however, owing to the same issues described above, we request that that the initial charge of £60 is applied as part of this appeal?

Can I also ask that you supply ‘Mr S’ with a valid permit as he is still not in receipt of one and unable to use the space which has been paid for. Also, please note that the car has now been sold (as we have nowhere to park) and ‘Mr C’ is no longer the registered owner of the vehicle.

I look forward to hearing from you

Yours Sincerely

‘Mr S’ & ‘Mr C’


Dear Mr C

Thank you for your correspondence regarding above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

We are unable to process your appeal as your case is with one of our external debt collection agencies. You will now need to contract them regarding your case, all contact details for them can be found on previous correspondence they have sent you.

Debt Recovery Plus Ltd - <Telephone number>
Trace Debt Recovery Uk Ltd - <Telephone number>

The Independent Appeals Service (www.IAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. Debt Recovery Companies will not engage with the IAS Non-Standard Appeals Service at this stage

Yours Sincerely
PCM Appeals Team
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whjohnson
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 15:12
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"........4. Premium commercial parking vs residential parking re, Parking Eye Vs Bevis – I need to get my head around this case better. So their contract with landowner allows them to dish out penalty charges but not at a premium??........."


Beavis was about a PPC paying the landholder to ensure a high turnover of cars in and out. It was a retail shopping complex and they didn't want people leaving their cars all day which would mean that genuine shoppers would have nowhere to park.

Your case is different insomuch that yours is a residential space and thus not expected to be used in the same way. You can leave your car there for as long as you wish and that unlike the Beavis carpark thing, you don't have to purchase a parking ticket to do so.

This post has been edited by whjohnson: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 15:14
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 16:28
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alfxlon

I am drafting something for you. Give me an hour.
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:42
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I thought that I should give you a progress report.

Below is what I have drafted so far. Would you like me to continue?


In the County Court at <location of court>


Claim No. <claim number>


Claimant: <name of parking company>


Defendant: <your name>


Statement of Legal Arguments by the Defendant rebutting the Claimant’s Witness Statement


Witness statement of <your name>


1.1 I, <defendant’s name> of <address>, am the Defendant in this case. My home is a flat. I am the leasehold owner of the flat which I purchased on 15 January 2010.

1.2 Being a leasehold property, of course, my rights and obligations where I live are governed by my lease. In the same way, the lease governs the rights and obligations of the other parties to the lease.

1.3 Under my lease, the other parties to it have granted me the exclusive right to use an allocated parking space. That is the sole purpose of the land.

1.4 There is nothing in my lease which would enable the other parties to authorise a stranger, such as the Claimant, to use my allocated parking space for the purposes of its business.

1.5 It was never intended that a parking company, such as the Claimant, would be able to offer all-comers parking in my allocated parking space, but that is what the Claimant does.

1.6 It is perverse that the Claimant asserts that the parking scheme exists for my benefit. I derive no benefit whatsoever from the scheme. If a trespasser were to park in my space, the Claimant would not move the vehicle to clear the space for my use and it would not offer me part of its parking charge to compensate me for having to pay for parking elsewhere. The parking scheme is a purely predatory arrangement intended to fill the Claimant’s coffers.

1.7 The numbering of the paragraphs which follow the numbering of the Claimant’s witness statement.

2.1 The Claimant commenced its use of my allocated parking space for its business purposes three years after I purchased my lease.

2.2 The Claimant failed to apply due diligence not only to my lease and my rights under it, but also to the lack of rights of its client.

2.3 In its bundle, the Claimant includes, as its first exhibit, an agreement with its client, a “Manager”. The Manager is, of course, not I. The Manager does not, therefore, own the parking rights relating to the relevant land. The Manager is not a party to the lease. The agreement does not state that the Manager is acting on behalf of the freeholder. Furthermore, given that the freeholder has never indicated to me that it has sanctioned either the Manager or the Claimant or, indeed, anyone else to use my parking space for any purpose, I do not believe that the Manager is acting on behalf of the freeholder.

2.4 In any event, my lease has primacy of contract over any agreement between the Claimant and the Manager and, as mentioned in paragraph 1.4, there is nothing in my lease which permits any of the other parties to it to authorise a stranger to use my allocated parking space for its business purposes.

2.5 The only possible way that the Claimant would be able to charge for parking in my allocated parking space would be if I had agreed to transfer the whole or part of my parking rights to it. I have never agreed to this.

2.6 The agreement and the Claimant’s other exhibits have no relevance insofar as my allocated parking space and my rights to park in it are concerned.

3 I paid for parking in my allocated parking space when I purchased my lease. My lease does, of course, oblige me to pay service charges and ground rent, but it places me under no obligation whatsoever to pay anything more for parking. The Claimant’s assertion that I am “liable for a parking charge relating to the parking of a vehicle on the Relevant Land” is, therefore, entirely spurious.

4 My lease says everything that needs to be said about my rights to park in my allocated parking space. In effect, my lease is my parking permit. The Claimant’s signage and permit are irrelevant.

5.1 In the criminal case of Elliott v Loake, there was forensic evidence that the registered keeper was the driver of the vehicle. In addition, the registered keeper of the vehicle admitted that only he could have been driving the vehicle. It does not provide a precedent for presuming that the registered keeper of a vehicle is its driver. involved not housing manager an exhibit ’s bundle consisted of a witness statement and five exhibits. and my relationships with the other parties to the lease

5.2 Furthermore, I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle.

6.1 See paragraph 5.2. In order to pursue the registered keeper for parking charges, a parking company must obtain the registered keeper’s details from the DVLA. It would have been impossible for the Claimant to have obtained my details from the DVLA as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

6.2 The Claimant is not, therefore, able to pursue me for parking charges as the registered keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection from Freedoms Act 2012.

7 See paragraph 6.2.

8 See paragraph 6.2.

9 I have never entered into a contract with the Claimant. I had no need. I had and still have a pre-existing right to park in my allocated parking space.

10 In Parking Eye v Beavis, Beavis acknowledged that Parking Eye had a valid contract with the owner of the land to operate a parking scheme on the land. I do not accept that the Claimant had or has any right to use my allocated parking space for the purpose of its business.

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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 18:27
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1) summarise the flaws in their WS. It's what I said already. Point out that the WS was clearly not written by anyone with direct knowledge, because if so they would know the defendant is NOT the rk, as stated on x date

Point out you are confused why the C is claiming something that has never been said.
2) witness summons.
3)it's not a skelly so much as a full claim. It's a real mishmash. You just state this orally.
4) there is no commercial reason to require a high turnover. So it's a penalty and the penalty rule wasn't lifted.
5) question their witness on standing to sign
6) adduce in the witness statement
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:02
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alfxlon

Here is my full draft. It is just a draft and I notice that nosferatu1001 has made some recent comments which may well be worthy of inclusion. On reading through it myself, I have found that it says nothing about non-derogation from grant and nothing about tortious interference with your lease which must go in.

I think the IPC v BPA matter may give the Manager grounds for claiming breach of contract, but probably not you.

Anyway, over to you and others to polish or scrap.



In the County Court at <location of court>


Claim No. <claim number>


Claimant: <name of parking company>


Defendant: <your name>


Statement of Legal Arguments by the Defendant rebutting the Claimant’s Witness Statement


Witness statement of <your name>


1.1 I, <defendant’s name> of <address>, am the Defendant in this case. My home is a flat. I am the leasehold owner of the flat which I purchased on 15 January 2010.

1.2 Being a leasehold property, of course, my rights and obligations where I live are governed by my lease. In the same way, the lease governs the rights and obligations of the other parties to the lease.

1.3 Under my lease, the other parties to it have granted me the exclusive right to use an allocated parking space. That is the sole purpose of the land.

1.4 There is nothing in my lease which would enable the other parties to authorise a stranger, such as the Claimant, to use my allocated parking space for the purposes of its business.

1.5 It was never intended that a parking company, such as the Claimant, would be able to offer all-comers parking in my allocated parking space, but that is what the Claimant does.

1.6 It is perverse that the Claimant asserts that the parking scheme exists for my benefit. I derive no benefit whatsoever from the scheme. If a trespasser were to park in my space, the Claimant would not move the vehicle to clear the space for my use and it would not offer me part of its parking charge to compensate me for having to pay for parking elsewhere. The parking scheme is a purely predatory arrangement intended to fill the Claimant’s coffers.

1.7 The numbering of the paragraphs which follow the numbering of the Claimant’s witness statement.

2.1 The Claimant commenced its use of my allocated parking space for its business purposes three years after I purchased my lease.

2.2 The Claimant failed to apply due diligence not only to my lease and my rights under it, but also to the lack of rights of its client.

2.3 In its bundle, the Claimant includes, as its first exhibit, an agreement with its client, a “Manager”. The Manager is, of course, not I. The Manager does not, therefore, own the parking rights relating to the relevant land. The Manager is not a party to the lease. The agreement does not state that the Manager is acting on behalf of the freeholder. Furthermore, given that the freeholder has never indicated to me that it has sanctioned either the Manager or the Claimant or, indeed, anyone else to use my parking space for any purpose, I do not believe that the Manager is acting on behalf of the freeholder.

2.4 In any event, my lease has primacy of contract over any agreement between the Claimant and the Manager and, as mentioned in paragraph 1.4, there is nothing in my lease which permits any of the other parties to it to authorise a stranger to use my allocated parking space for its business purposes.

2.5 The only possible way that the Claimant would be able to charge for parking in my allocated parking space would be if I had agreed to transfer the whole or part of my parking rights to it. I have never agreed to this.

2.6 The agreement and the Claimant’s other exhibits have no relevance insofar as my allocated parking space and my rights to park in it are concerned.

3 I paid for parking in my allocated parking space when I purchased my lease. My lease does, of course, oblige me to pay service charges and ground rent, but it places me under no obligation whatsoever to pay anything more for parking. The Claimant’s assertion that I am “liable for a parking charge relating to the parking of a vehicle on the Relevant Land” is, therefore, entirely spurious.

4 My lease says everything that needs to be said about my rights to park in my allocated parking space. In effect, my lease is my parking permit. The Claimant’s signage and permit are irrelevant.

5.1 In the criminal case of Elliott v Loake, there was forensic evidence that the registered keeper was the driver of the vehicle. In addition, the registered keeper of the vehicle admitted that only he could have been driving the vehicle. It does not provide a precedent for presuming that the registered keeper of a vehicle is its driver. involved not housing manager an exhibit ’s bundle consisted of a witness statement and five exhibits. and my relationships with the other parties to the lease

5.2 Furthermore, I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle.

6.1 See paragraph 5.2. In order to pursue the registered keeper for parking charges, a parking company must obtain the registered keeper’s details from the DVLA. It would have been impossible for the Claimant to have obtained my details from the DVLA as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

6.2 The Claimant is not, therefore, able to pursue me for parking charges as the registered keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection from Freedoms Act 2012.

7 See paragraph 6.2.

8 See paragraph 6.2.

9 I have never entered into a contract with the Claimant. I had no need. I had and still have a pre-existing right to park in my allocated parking space. I have no obligations to the Claimant. When it comes to my allocated parking space, I regard the Claimant as nothing more than a serial trespasser on the make.

10 See paragraph 9.

11 See paragraph 9.

12 See paragraph 9.

13 The Claimant has no right to grant “a contractual licence to all (which) allows anyone permission to be on the Land”. This results in the Claimant not simply being a serial trespasser but a serial trespasser who encourages others to trespass in my allocated parking space. The offer, acceptance and consideration relating to my right to park in my allocated parking space came when the parties to my lease signed it and I paid the purchase price.

14 See paragraph 9.

15 See paragraphs 9 and 13.

16 If the Claimant had applied due diligence prior to entering into its fatally flawed contract with the Manager, it would have discovered that parking in my allocated parking space was governed by a lease. My lease, which I have included in my bundle makes it very clear that I do have a right to park in my allocated parking space. It is the Claimant which has failed to provide evidence of its purported right to use my parking space for the purposes of its business.

17 As mentioned in paragraph 1.6, it is perverse that the Claimant asserts that the parking scheme exists for my benefit. I derive no benefit whatsoever from the scheme. If a trespasser were to park in my space, the Claimant would not move the vehicle to clear the space for my use and it would not offer me part of its parking charge to compensate me for having to pay for parking elsewhere. The parking scheme is a purely predatory arrangement intended to fill the Claimant’s coffers. The Claimant had and has no right to manage the space or to issue its so-called parking permits. Before the Claimant commenced using my allocated parking space for the purpose of its business, it should have heeded the terms of my lease. I was under no obligation to notify the Claimant of the terms of my lease. It is noteworthy here that Section 13 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 “In a relevant contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill”.

18 The Claimant’s signs are irrelevant. They would only be of relevance if the Claimant had been authorised validly to use my allocated parking space for the purposes of its business; however, as mentioned in paragraph 1.4, there is nothing in my lease which would enable the other parties to authorise a stranger, such as the Claimant, to use my allocated parking space for the purposes of its business.

19 See paragraph 18.

20 See paragraph 9.

21 See paragraph 9.

22 See paragraph 9.

23 See paragraph 9.

24 The Claimant implies that the only way to submit particulars of claim is via the MCOL online facility which “only allows the Claimant to insert brief details of the Claim”. Although the online facility does restrict the length of particulars of claim, defences and counterclaims, it is not the only way of submitting any of these documents.

25 Given that I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle, I could not possibly have been sent any valid “notices in accordance with the Act” (i.e. Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012). Insofar as all of the Claimant’s correspondence is concerned, I must confess my naivety – I thought that the parking scheme was such an obvious scam that the Claimant would never issue a formal claim against me. I particularly regret my failure to respond to the Claimant’s letter before claim because I now realise that this would have provided me with an opportunity to request information and documents from the Claimant which, if the Claimant was able to provide, could perhaps have enable us to narrow the issues between us. Frankly, however, being somewhat wiser now, I am convinced that the Claimant would not have been able to provide that information and those documents.

26 As there is no contract between the Claimant and myself, there has been no breach of contract.

27 It is interesting that the Claimant is an “Accredited Operator of the International Parking Community (IPC)”. The agreement with the Manager on which it places great reliance states very clearly that “The scheme will be operated in accordance with the BPA (British Parking Association) and AOS (Approved Operator Scheme) Code of Practice”. The IPC and the BPA are rival trade associations. The Claimant has cut its ties with the BPA and is no longer subject to its AOS.

28 When pursuing the registered keeper, as opposed to the driver, Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not allow the parking charge to be increased over and above the sum of £100 originally claimed.

29 In paragraph 29 of the Claimant’s witness statement, the Claiamnt wriggles yet again from the keeper to the driver.

30 See paragraph 26.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:05
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alfxlon
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:24
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Thanks for this Eljayjay...

Edited this post as I saw you've pretty much done the skeleton argument...this is looking great!!


Quick question..I have an issue when I want to present evidence that relates to the fact that i've seen their witness statement in advance of submitting mine (I can't submit more evidence in the skeleton argument.)

So I was thinking, I could also carry on the chronological story in my witness statement i.e.

"on 6th August 2018 I received the Claimant's witness statement"
"The claimant's witness statement states it is pursuing me as registered keeper. However, I can confirm I have never been registered keeper <DVLA evidence>"
"the claimant's witness statement contained the contract with the landowner that is signed by a housing officer, however....(as per your points above)
" The claimant's contract with the landowner requires them to be part of BPA and apply the code of practice - I can confirm that this code of practice wasn't carried out - (see code of practice evidence).

etc etc

what do you think?

This post has been edited by alfxlon: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:42
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alfxlon
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 20:00
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ignore my last message...i think i'm getting it now. They are assuming the right that was originally granted to me as their own i.e. to use the parking space for their purposes . Its not about them regulating or maintaining order... it's them using a right that's exclusively mine to make money out of people. They clearly can't do that.

I get it (finally )... thanks Eljayjay! this is brilliant - i can work with this. I really appreciate your help.

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southpaw82
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 20:40
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QUOTE (alfxlon @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 20:24) *
(I can't submit more evidence in the skeleton argument.)

True but you can submit an additional witness statement with the evidence exhibited to it. If you ensure the claimant has a copy in advance of the hearing and explain to the court why you did so (i.e. to respond to their evidence) there shouldn’t be an issue.


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alfxlon
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 20:49
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great..thanks for clarifying Southpaw. I'll do it as additional WS as you suggested.

right..I'm calling it a night, give someone else a chance.

I'll get working on the additional WS and skeleton argument and give everyone an update shortly.
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 23:42
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I am really glad that the penny has dropped with regard to what a residential case is all about in my opinion.

southpaw82’s post answers your question for you.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 19:36
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 20:02) *
5.1 In the criminal case of Elliott v Loake, there was forensic evidence that the registered keeper was the driver of the vehicle.

Not true.

In EvL he stated that the car wasn’t at the scene of the accident and that only he had been driving it, as they could prove the car was at the scene (forensically) then he had to have been driving it.

It would be better to say that his own testimony meant he had to have been driving it.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 19:42


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Albert Ross
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 21:25
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QUOTE
The contract states that "the scheme will be operated in accordance with the BPA (British Parking Association) and AOS (Approved Operator Scheme) Code of Practice. It goes on to "give authority to proceed with legal action to recover unpaid charges for unauthorised parking on the land specified above in accordance with BPA/AOS code of practice"


Is or was Version 1 of the BPA AOS Code of Practice available in 2010.

Is the Housing Association one which receives Public Funding; and therefore obligated to provide the contract with a FOI request, especially given that this could then give right to a Family Life...


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henrik777
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:26
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QUOTE (Albert Ross @ Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 22:25) *
Is or was Version 1 of the BPA AOS Code of Practice available in 2010.


Came in with PoFA October 2012. The amendment in 2013 probably covered that.
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