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business cover on my car insurance, do I need it
CLARKE
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 22:51
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Hi, my car insurance is due for renewal shortly but first I would like to ask on the forum about business use. I have been retired for 5 years, I used to be a carpet fitter. I still like to do the odd small job for friends and family if they need my help. I Don't get paid, money doesn't come into it and it gives me something to do.

However someone recently mentioned that I should have business use on my insurance because if I was pulled over by the police for any reason even a random stop, and they notice I have tools of the trade in my boot the first thing they will ask me is do you have business cover, and I say no, I could be prosecuted for driving without the correct insurance.

I did try to get a couple of quotes online but I can't find cover for business use if i am also retired. What do you guys think, I don't want to run the risk of getting on the wrong side of the law.
Regards,
Clarke

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post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 22:51
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Steve_999
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:04
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I often carry tools in my car, but didn't have business cover being retired like you. I recently added business cover so that my partner could borrow my car to use in her job as a community nurse while hers was being repaired. Nil cost and, it seems, no problem with me having no occupation but still having business use (not just commuting).
I would call your insurance company and explain the concern. If they suggest business use would be advisable (especially if at no cost) then consider taking it out. Quite frankly, so long as you can prove with statements from friends and family that you are not doing the work for them as a business, I don't believe you have anything to worry about.
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StuartBu
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:47
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 00:04) *
I often carry tools in my car, but didn't have business cover being retired like you. I recently added business cover so that my partner could borrow my car to use in her job as a community nurse while hers was being repaired. Nil cost and, it seems, no problem with me having no occupation but still having business use (not just commuting).
I would call your insurance company and explain the concern. If they suggest business use would be advisable (especially if at no cost) then consider taking it out. Quite frankly, so long as you can prove with statements from friends and family that you are not doing the work for them as a business, I don't believe you have anything to worry about.

I think the first option sounds the best idea... getting stopped by Plod who see tools in the boot or on the back seat could well generate a " discussion" which the OP really doesn't want to get involved in.
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Wretched Rectum
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 00:36
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QUOTE (CLARKE @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:51) *
Hi, my car insurance is due for renewal shortly but first I would like to ask on the forum about business use. I have been retired for 5 years, I used to be a carpet fitter. I still like to do the odd small job for friends and family if they need my help. I Don't get paid, money doesn't come into it and it gives me something to do.

However someone recently mentioned that I should have business use on my insurance because if I was pulled over by the police for any reason even a random stop, and they notice I have tools of the trade in my boot the first thing they will ask me is do you have business cover, and I say no, I could be prosecuted for driving without the correct insurance.

I did try to get a couple of quotes online but I can't find cover for business use if i am also retired. What do you guys think, I don't want to run the risk of getting on the wrong side of the law.
Regards,
Clarke


Why not email and ask your local plod? If they say you don't need business cover just to help out mates you will have it writing to know what you need to do.
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StuartBu
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 02:42
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QUOTE (Wretched Rectum @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 01:36) *
QUOTE (CLARKE @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:51) *
Hi, my car insurance is due for renewal shortly but first I would like to ask on the forum about business use. I have been retired for 5 years, I used to be a carpet fitter. I still like to do the odd small job for friends and family if they need my help. I Don't get paid, money doesn't come into it and it gives me something to do.

However someone recently mentioned that I should have business use on my insurance because if I was pulled over by the police for any reason even a random stop, and they notice I have tools of the trade in my boot the first thing they will ask me is do you have business cover, and I say no, I could be prosecuted for driving without the correct insurance.

I did try to get a couple of quotes online but I can't find cover for business use if i am also retired. What do you guys think, I don't want to run the risk of getting on the wrong side of the law.
Regards,
Clarke


Why not email and ask your local plod? If they say you don't need business cover just to help out mates you will have it writing to know what you need to do.

Hmmmmm!!! Your faith in the Polis is touching... If its going to cost little or nothing then thats the route I'd be taking.
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ford poplar
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 02:46
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Don't ask Plod, ask your current Insurer how much they would charge you for adding business use to your current Policy.
You don't have to receive cash to be 'paid'. Accepting a cup of tea could be (harshly) construed as 'payment'.
If your Cert of Ins includes 'business use', there can be no argument from 'plod'.

This post has been edited by ford poplar: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 02:47
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The Rookie
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 06:20
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The trouble is for site visits you would need class2 business cover (the expensive one) not intrasite class1 that’s near enough or actually free.

As you aren’t doing the fitting in the course of a business you clearly do not need business cover, many people take tools to help friends out, I help with car repairs yet it’s not a business, nor is it anything I do as part of my work anyway.


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Steve_999
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 08:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 07:20) *
The trouble is for site visits you would need class2 business cover (the expensive one) not intrasite class1 that’s near enough or actually free.

. . . . .


That was the one which Direct Line added to my policy for no charge. We needed that as my partner does home visits as well as running clinics in various locations. Not only that, but the Drive Other Vehicles cover doesn't specify the "other vehicle" requires insurance in its own right, which seems to be quite unusual these days.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:26
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QUOTE (Unzippy @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 06:22) *
If Plod stop and ask you, you are popping out to get a pint of milk, it's the easiest answer.

Even if it’s not the truth?


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Churchmouse
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 13:39
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QUOTE (Wretched Rectum @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 01:36) *
QUOTE (CLARKE @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:51) *
Hi, my car insurance is due for renewal shortly but first I would like to ask on the forum about business use. I have been retired for 5 years, I used to be a carpet fitter. I still like to do the odd small job for friends and family if they need my help. I Don't get paid, money doesn't come into it and it gives me something to do.

However someone recently mentioned that I should have business use on my insurance because if I was pulled over by the police for any reason even a random stop, and they notice I have tools of the trade in my boot the first thing they will ask me is do you have business cover, and I say no, I could be prosecuted for driving without the correct insurance.

I did try to get a couple of quotes online but I can't find cover for business use if i am also retired. What do you guys think, I don't want to run the risk of getting on the wrong side of the law.
Regards,
Clarke


Why not email and ask your local plod? If they say you don't need business cover just to help out mates you will have it writing to know what you need to do.

There is very little benefit from asking the police about the law. Their answers are surprisingly often incorrect and cannot be relied upon in court (or anywhere else).

In order for an "invalid insurance" charge based on business use under a non-business use policy to stick, the police need to prove that there was indeed business use. Tools of the trade being present in the vehicle would form part of the evidence needed for conviction, as would any statements made by the driver concerning the circumstances of their use of the vehicle.

--Churchmouse
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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:01
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QUOTE (CLARKE @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:51) *
However someone recently mentioned that I should have business use on my insurance because if I was pulled over by the police for any reason even a random stop, and they notice I have tools of the trade in my boot the first thing they will ask me is do you have business cover, and I say no, I could be prosecuted for driving without the correct insurance.

I would stop taking legal advice from whoever this someone is.


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peodude
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 08:43
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 07:20) *
The trouble is for site visits you would need class2 business cover (the expensive one) not intrasite class1 that’s near enough or actually free.

. . . . .
Not only that, but the Drive Other Vehicles cover doesn't specify the "other vehicle" requires insurance in its own right, which seems to be quite unusual these days.


With continuous insurance there is no need for that clause any more, either the other vehicle is insured, or it is SORN.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:47
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QUOTE (peodude @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 09:43) *
QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 07:20) *
The trouble is for site visits you would need class2 business cover (the expensive one) not intrasite class1 that’s near enough or actually free.

. . . . .
Not only that, but the Drive Other Vehicles cover doesn't specify the "other vehicle" requires insurance in its own right, which seems to be quite unusual these days.


With continuous insurance there is no need for that clause any more, either the other vehicle is insured, or it is SORN.

Or is not UK registered.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:55
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:47) *
QUOTE (peodude @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 09:43) *
QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 07:20) *
The trouble is for site visits you would need class2 business cover (the expensive one) not intrasite class1 that’s near enough or actually free.

. . . . .
Not only that, but the Drive Other Vehicles cover doesn't specify the "other vehicle" requires insurance in its own right, which seems to be quite unusual these days.


With continuous insurance there is no need for that clause any more, either the other vehicle is insured, or it is SORN.

Or is not UK registered.

Typically to have DoV on a UK policy you need to be a UK resident, which means you can't drive a non-UK vehicle anyway.


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typefish
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:15
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:55) *
Typically to have DoV on a UK policy you need to be a UK resident, which means you can't drive a non-UK vehicle anyway.


Well, you can in certain circumstances, but probably not after Brexit wink.gif
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southpaw82
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 14:36
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:55) *
Typically to have DoV on a UK policy you need to be a UK resident, which means you can't drive a non-UK vehicle anyway.

You’re a UK resident. Presumably you could drive my car if I was visiting the UK?


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cp8759
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 00:26
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:55) *
Typically to have DoV on a UK policy you need to be a UK resident, which means you can't drive a non-UK vehicle anyway.

You’re a UK resident. Presumably you could drive my car if I was visiting the UK?

No I could not, as The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 does not provide an exemption from the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 when the driver is a UK resident. There are some limited exceptions, there's a good summary of the legal position here: https://www.hughesguides.com/foreignvehicles.pdf


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Steve_999
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 09:25
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QUOTE (peodude @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 09:43) *
QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 07:20) *
The trouble is for site visits you would need class2 business cover (the expensive one) not intrasite class1 that’s near enough or actually free.

. . . . .
Not only that, but the Drive Other Vehicles cover doesn't specify the "other vehicle" requires insurance in its own right, which seems to be quite unusual these days.


With continuous insurance there is no need for that clause any more, either the other vehicle is insured, or it is SORN.


It's handy for taking another person's car (which is SORNed and uninsured) for its MoT though.
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DancingDad
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 10:10
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 10:25) *
............It's handy for taking another person's car (which is SORNed and uninsured) for its MoT though.



DOV ??
Only if your policy allows uninsured vehicles to be driven.
Few years back, the insurance policy I had, included DOV on any vehicle my licence covered.
I checked with them and they were quite happy that it included my wife's car which was then on SORN and uninsured. Happy to drive it to MOT.

Next Company I was with specifically said other vehicles covered (3rd party) only if insured. Meant I had to get insurance to cover my daughter's car when purchased so I could drive it home, wasn't sensible to insure it in her name at the time.

New policy I have just taken out includes DOV, on insured vehicles but excludes vehicles belonging to spouse/family

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 10:13
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southpaw82
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 12:26
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 01:26) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:55) *
Typically to have DoV on a UK policy you need to be a UK resident, which means you can't drive a non-UK vehicle anyway.

You’re a UK resident. Presumably you could drive my car if I was visiting the UK?

No I could not, as The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 does not provide an exemption from the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 when the driver is a UK resident. There are some limited exceptions, there's a good summary of the legal position here: https://www.hughesguides.com/foreignvehicles.pdf

I was more interested in the insurance position. My car doesn’t appear on the MID either.


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