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Left the country but got letter from BW legal - best approach now
Mark901
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 07:12
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I have left the UK. I completely ignored a "parking invoice" and now have a "Letter of Claim" from BW legal - is this likely to go to county court? If so, is it worth simply paying up as the cost to get back to the UK is not immaterial? Or can county court sessions somehow be conducted "remotely"?

TIA.
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post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 07:12
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Jlc
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 07:53
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QUOTE (Mark901 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 08:12) *
I have left the UK.

Permanently?

QUOTE (Mark901 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 08:12) *
is this likely to go to county court?

A claim will follow but will default if ignored.

QUOTE (Mark901 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 08:12) *
If so, is it worth simply paying up as the cost to get back to the UK is not immaterial? Or can county court sessions somehow be conducted "remotely"?

Hearings can be conducted on papers only.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 07:57
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I presume you have an address abroad and this is mail that has been forwarded to you. Write to BWL and point out to them that you have moved abroad, this is my address and therefore I am no longer within the jurisdiction of the UK courts.

If they are silly enough to raise a claim and the claim form is forwarded to you then your on line response to the court will be to contest the jurisdiction of the court

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 07:59
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Mark901
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 08:52
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Thanks for the replies so far.

To clarify: Yes, I have permanently left the UK - I have a permanent address abroad and a permanent job abroad.

I do still have a property in the UK which I visit two or three times per year - this is how I obtained the BW-legal letter.

What determines if a court has jurisdiction?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 15:30
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You live outside of the UK. Thats It. They no longer have jurisdiction over you.

Tell BW Legal this, state this is yoru ADDRESS FOR SERVICE and they must ERASE the old one. THey have a duty to do this and cannot refuse. State that should they raise a claim against your old address you will hold them liable for any damages suffered as a result of their knowingly using a bad address for service, and will report them to the SRA and ask tehc orut to sanction them for perjury.
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Mark901
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:56
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 17:30) *
You live outside of the UK. Thats It. They no longer have jurisdiction over you.

Tell BW Legal this, state this is yoru ADDRESS FOR SERVICE and they must ERASE the old one. THey have a duty to do this and cannot refuse. State that should they raise a claim against your old address you will hold them liable for any damages suffered as a result of their knowingly using a bad address for service, and will report them to the SRA and ask tehc orut to sanction them for perjury.


Are you sure about this? I read

"In the Brussels I Regulation, the rule is that the courts of the defendant's EU country of residence should hear the case. Exceptions apply in some specific cases, such as
a breach of contract: the courts of the place where the obligation in question should have been performed should hear the case".

[Source: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-...der-disputes_en]

So it seems to me that parking charges that might be regarded as a breach of contract if not paid are excluded from the "country of residence" rule.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 19:24
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No contact was formed by the keeper. Only the driver. Pofa is a way to be responsible for this

I am certain on your action in telling BW your address for service. Do it. Do t quibble

There is very very little chance they would apply to the court to try to gain jurisdiction. It costs them lo5s in time and actual court fees. We know of NO CASE raised to an out of uk address in the uk court.
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Redivi
post Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 08:44
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Whether or not BWL would try to gain jurisdiction is irrelevant

The purpose of telling BWL your new address is to prevent them obtaining a default judgment at your old address without consequences

Keep a copy of the letter and ask the Post Office for a free certificate of sending so BWL won't be able to deny receiving it

Tell them as well that they must inform the client
Some companies, such as VCS, have been known to issue claims directly years afterward

BWL is notoriously slow to respond to correspondence so I would also send the information by email
You will at least have a receipt that it was received

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 08:45
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ostell
post Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 09:05
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The OP is outside the UK so perhaps no certificate of posting available but yes send by mail AND email to both entities
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Mark901
post Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 08:44
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I called bw-legal and tried to get them to change my address to my non-UK address - phone calls are always quicker I thought smile.gif

Of course I didn't discuss the alleged debt nor did I give them my phone number.

However, they refused to change the address saying they cannot change it to a non-UK address. Shall I immediately contact the SRA? And the ICO?

TIA.
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henrik777
post Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 09:08
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QUOTE (Mark901 @ Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 09:44) *
I called bw-legal and tried to get them to change my address to my non-UK address - phone calls are always quicker I thought smile.gif

Of course I didn't discuss the alleged debt nor did I give them my phone number.

However, they refused to change the address saying they cannot change it to a non-UK address. Shall I immediately contact the SRA? And the ICO?

TIA.



I would email a recollection of this conversation to them for evidential purposes. After a small period of time then i would report them. (they might change their mind (or mistake as they may call it) upon receipt).

They cannot use MCOL to serve an address abroad. (in the sense it's not allowed rather than impossible)
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Mark901
post Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 09:38
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QUOTE (henrik777 @ Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 11:08) *
QUOTE (Mark901 @ Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 09:44) *
I called bw-legal and tried to get them to change my address to my non-UK address - phone calls are always quicker I thought smile.gif

Of course I didn't discuss the alleged debt nor did I give them my phone number.

However, they refused to change the address saying they cannot change it to a non-UK address. Shall I immediately contact the SRA? And the ICO?

TIA.



I would email a recollection of this conversation to them for evidential purposes. After a small period of time then i would report them. (they might change their mind (or mistake as they may call it) upon receipt).

They cannot use MCOL to serve an address abroad. (in the sense it's not allowed rather than impossible)


Called again and mentioned the GDPR (right to rectification) - they were a little more receptive and stated that if I emailed them the change of address request they will do it. I remain sceptical, but let's see smile.gif Email sent.


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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 10:03
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INdeed, you never use a phone call. No record. The entire point is to have a record

EXACTLY what did you send?
Did you state this i s your new "address for service" as this is your permanent address? ANd REQUIRED them to ERASE their old one, AND to inform their client?
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Mark901
post Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 10:08
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 12:03) *
INdeed, you never use a phone call. No record. The entire point is to have a record

EXACTLY what did you send?
Did you state this i s your new "address for service" as this is your permanent address? ANd REQUIRED them to ERASE their old one, AND to inform their client?

Yes, I told them it was my address for service and I told them they should erase the old one. I asked them to confirm this by replying to the email.

I didn't ask them to inform their client, but I sent a separate (and very similar) email to their client informing them.
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Mark901
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 09:32
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So BW Legal are back. Much as they sent confirmation that they had recorded my new non-UK address on file, it seems that every few months they reset your home address by searching Equifax!

They sent me an email stating "We have been instructed by Premier Park Limited to commence legal action against you in respect of the above unpaid parking charge...." and stating that they had sent documents in the post. Of course they got my old UK address from Equifax and sent it there.

Of course I have no access to that address.

It seems they check Equifax regularly - looks like everyone has to live at the address commanded by Equifax! smile.gif smile.gif

What's the best course of action?
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thevaliant
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 09:59
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QUOTE (Mark901 @ Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 09:32) *
So BW Legal are back. Much as they sent confirmation that they had recorded my new non-UK address on file, it seems that every few months they reset your home address by searching Equifax!

They sent me an email stating "We have been instructed by Premier Park Limited to commence legal action against you in respect of the above unpaid parking charge...." and stating that they had sent documents in the post. Of course they got my old UK address from Equifax and sent it there.

Of course I have no access to that address.

It seems they check Equifax regularly - looks like everyone has to live at the address commanded by Equifax! smile.gif smile.gif

What's the best course of action?


Have you no access to that address anymore because you've sold the UK property?
Do you have any presence in the UK anymore, or any intention to in the next 6 years or so?

If not, I might be inclined to ignore. They may win a judgement in default against a person who doesn't live at the address but they'll never be able to collect.
Alternatively, just another email - I now live here (non-UK address) as already mentioned. Please use this for service.

I suspect whoever does live at the old address is not going to be best pleased either....
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ostell
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 10:00
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Write to them and remind them of the address for service that you gave them some time ago. email followed by letter. A foreign stamp might persuade them. And a complaint to the SRA
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DWMB2
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 10:04
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Further up the thread the OP noted that they still own a property in the UK - which appears to be the one to which the correspondence is being sent. So with financial interests in the UK they would probably be wise to avoid a default judgement and the resulting CCJ.

If the country you are in offers some form of proof of sending such as a receipt, I'd be minded to back up your emails with a physical letter. As ostell mentions, they can't say they thought you were making it up if they receive a letter with a foreign stamp on. And definitely complain to the SRA.


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Mark901
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 11:17
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Thanks for the extra responses. Complaint to the SRA sent.

Without having the correspondence, is it possible to find out online if an MCOL has been raised?

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roythebus
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 15:04
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I wonder if the property in the UK is in the OP's name or that of a company or some other body?

The fact he owns other property in the UK doesn't indicate it can be used as an address for receiving his mail. Presuming it is rented or leased, the current occupiers won't be too pleased at keep getting misdirected or wrongly addressed correspondence.
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