Station Parade - Barking - No Motor Vehicles, Failing to comply with signage - Appeal Allowed |
Station Parade - Barking - No Motor Vehicles, Failing to comply with signage - Appeal Allowed |
Sun, 12 Mar 2023 - 16:14
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
Hi Everyone,
Late in 2022 I passed Barking Station in London via Cambridge Road. I was well aware at the time you couldn't access this road from Longbridge Road, but didn't know there was the same no access from the other side. I simply did not see the signs due to their placement and isn't helped by the digital advert display behind the sign shining brightly. In the images/footage from CCTV, my headlights made no reflection on the sign. I came off the A13 via Gascoigne Road at which point speed drops from 50mph to 30mph (as per signs), however there are no signs as you approach the Barking Station area stating it's 20mph. There are plenty of signs stating 20mph in the opposite direction. I appealed to the council that the sign was not to spec as it was not illuminated. They rejected but I took it further and won the appeal. I imagine the council has generated a large amount of revenue from this location. Surely any paid tickets should be refunded as the signage was not to spec? Is this worth chasing? Contravention: Failing to comply with a sign indicating a prohibition on certain types of vehicle Adjudicator's Decision The adjudicator, having considered the evidence submitted by the parties, has allowed the appeal. The reasons for the adjudicator's decision are enclosed. The adjudicator directs London Borough of Barking and Dagenham to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. If any penalty or fees have already been paid, the Enforcement Authority must now issue a refund without delay. Enquiries regarding payment of the refund should be made to the Enforcement Authority. Adjudicator's Reasons The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle failed to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles) when in Station Parade on 23 November 2022 at 17.34. The Appellant is correct in stating, as required by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD), that the signage at the location in Station Parade must be illuminated. The Authority are referred to Schedule 3 Upright signs Part 4 para 4 4. - (1) Subject to sub-paragraph (2) to (5), where the sign is placed on a road subject to a speed limit greater than 20mph, and is within 50 metres of any lamp, which forms part of a system of street-lighting, the illumination requirements for the signs are- (a) where the system of street-lighting is illuminated throughout the hours of darkness, the sign must be illuminated by internal or external lighting for so long as that system is illuminated and may also be reflectorised; or (b) where the system of street-lighting is not illuminated throughout the hours of darkness- (i) the sign must be illuminated by internal or external lighting for so long as that system is illuminated and must also be reflectorised; or (ii)the sign must be illuminated throughout the hours of darkness by internal or external lighting and may also be reflectorised. The Appellant advances a good point and I find that the TSRGD 2016 requires the sign plate 'No Motor vehicles Diagram 619' in Station Parade to be illuminated by internal or external lighting. Accordingly, this appeal is allowed. This post has been edited by vertex: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 - 16:21 |
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Sun, 12 Mar 2023 - 16:14
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Mon, 13 Mar 2023 - 18:16
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I'm pretty sure that road is 20 mph, so this is not a reliable outcome. The stronger point is that the 14 day discount period stated on the PCN is wrong.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 13 Mar 2023 - 21:19
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,475 Joined: 14 Apr 2022 Member No.: 116,298 |
A win nevertheless is a win. Well done. Last time I raised the 14 days issue it was dismissed. The technical arguments need a hypnotist these days.
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Tue, 14 Mar 2023 - 13:21
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
I'm pretty sure that road is 20 mph, so this is not a reliable outcome. The stronger point is that the 14 day discount period stated on the PCN is wrong. This depends on direction of travel. Coming off the Longbridge roundabout, yes the states 20mph. The speed limit sign from this approach is actually after the no motor vehicle sign (also not illuminated). Technically this sign isn't to spec also. From the direction I travelled, the last speed sign I passed was 30mph, (be it sign post or road marking). |
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Tue, 14 Mar 2023 - 23:34
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
From the direction I travelled, the last speed sign I passed was 30mph, (be it sign post or road marking). Can you give us a link to the GSV location please? This could be really useful information if B&D ever fix their PCN template. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 15 Mar 2023 - 23:12
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,981 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
Looked on GSV, the 20 sign is next to 34 Ripple Road, the "no vehicles except buses and taxis" sign is by 48 Station Parade. I can't remember where the 20 limit is on the approach from Cambridge Road, possibly at the end of London Road next to ASDA.
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Wed, 15 Mar 2023 - 23:30
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
From the direction I travelled, the last speed sign I passed was 30mph, (be it sign post or road marking). Can you give us a link to the GSV location please? This could be really useful information if B&D ever fix their PCN template. I came off this exit: Gascoigne Rd https://maps.app.goo.gl/2qoN4kp9NKu3sXri7 After this, if you navigate to Station Parade via Broadway > London Road > Linton Road > Cambridge Road, there isn't a speed sign stating 20mph afaik. |
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Thu, 16 Mar 2023 - 00:23
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,981 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
Yes, you're right, there's no 20 signs showing on GSV going that way, but I'm certain there was as I've driven rail replacement buses on that route for the last 6 years or more!
The vehicle restriction sign on the bridge is often hidden from view by a bus stopped at the stop, so totally invisible to drivers, and it doesn't have any illumination or reflective properties. |
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Thu, 16 Mar 2023 - 09:14
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Much of the route has GSV images from 2022 and there seem to be no 20 mph roundels or repeaters. It would be handy if someone could check the route and get photos to confirm.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 16 Mar 2023 - 19:45
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,981 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
I'm certain there's a 20 sign from the Longbridge roundabout going eastbound and a 30 on London Road next to the ASDA traffic lights...unless they've been removed! But that is at the end of the Buses Only part of London Road. That's the bit I've driven on and of for about 6 years! I'm reasonably certain there's a 20 on Ripple Road as I mentioned above. That road is buses only for the last bit.
The problem is my company has lost the contract for that route for the time being, so not sure when I'll be there again. |
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Thu, 16 Mar 2023 - 21:41
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
My kids have swimming lessons near Asda, I'm certain there aren't any speed signs at the corner of Asda / London Rd. Will confirm for sure this Sunday.
Yes, there are 20mph signs coming from Longbridge Rd, but as my above GSV screenshot shows, the speed sign is after the no motor vehicle sign. This is still the case, I drive past it twice a week minimum and get the bus to the station on other days. |
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Thu, 16 Mar 2023 - 23:27
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,981 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
How do you manage to drive past the "no motor vehicles except buses and taxis" sign twice a week? Or do you mean the advance warning sign just as you leave the roundabout?
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Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 12:22
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
How do you manage to drive past the "no motor vehicles except buses and taxis" sign twice a week? Or do you mean the advance warning sign just as you leave the roundabout? I drive past the sign, not through it. I take the exit to A406, not to Station Parade. |
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Fri, 17 Mar 2023 - 20:08
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,981 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
Gotcha. There's a second sign where the prohibition actually starts allowing entry to a car park on the left. Not the best signage in the world.
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Tue, 21 Mar 2023 - 16:59
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
Hello,
So no speed signs on corner of Asda. |
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Wed, 12 Apr 2023 - 15:44
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,618 |
Hi,
Via a FOI, Barking has generated just over £4.2m in revenue. With signs not to spec, surely some of this if not all should be returned? |
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Thu, 4 May 2023 - 21:33
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,981 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
Take the matter up with the local press.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Wednesday, 17th April 2024 - 04:34 |