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Quick question on PPC parking ticket whilst unloading
kev of cov
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:08
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Hi
I have received a speculative ticket (invoice) from a PPC and am happy to deal with it as I believe is straight forward. But then my wife tells me that I think I know it all so the doubt has set in…..

The facts are - residential flats with a private company issuing invoices to all parked RK’s by post, using cameras, if the reg number is not on their list. Fair enough – their carpark their rules.

My van was employed by a new resident to deliver their furniture. 45 mins maximum on site and I assured the resident not to worry as we would not get a ticket for delivering their stuff.

Ticket arrives and I tell the PPC that the resident has a right of access to the land and that this right extends to their contractors - so no contract exists between us and the PPC. (Also that any further correspondence needed in the future will generate our invoice to them)

The PPC has said that I should use their appeal procedure. I inform the PPC that as no contract exists between us no appeal is required (and that they now owe us £20 – reduced to £15 if paid within 30days, for work done)
Seems straight forward to me – I do not need to use their appeals procedure as their invoice is frivolous. Any thoughts are appreciate
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post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:08
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Jlc
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:31
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Which parking company?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Dave65
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:32
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First of all you should not give any indication who the driver was.
There are a number of posts on similar issue covered on this site where delivery is normally allowed.
But no money in that for these PPC.
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kev of cov
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:42
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Hi JLC

sorry their invoice is at work

Hi Dave65
yes I'm aware no names thanks.
I tried a search but it was searching all of Google. As you say - no money in it for them but 'send the invoice anyway'. I wish this industry would had a bit more pride....
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Dave65
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:56
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Try a search in the bottom left box such as "lease" or "flats" It's been a regular topic.

Also have a look down the list of recent posts, there's a number on Residential Properties.

This post has been edited by Dave65: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 20:00
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kev of cov
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 20:04
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Ahh - I've been trying the box top right.....
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Redivi
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 20:40
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Fair enough – their carpark their rules

It usually isn't their car park and the management agent has exceeded its authority by employing them
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Dave65
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 08:42
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Have a look at this one

Visit My Website

This post has been edited by Dave65: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 08:43
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Eljayjay
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 09:38
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Was your client the leasehold owner of the flat?

If so, you need to get hold of a copy of his/her lease. He/she will almost certainly be able to get hold of a copy, quite possibly free of charge, from the solicitor who handled the purchase. Otherwise, you will be able to get hold of a copy from the Land Registry by completing form OC2 and paying a fee.

If your client is renting, you need as copy of the head lease mentioned above plus a copy of your client's tenancy agreement.

Those documents will give you details of any parking rights which your client may have.

It is very unlikely that the parking scheme at the location is capable of being imposed on the residents.

If your client instructed you to park the vehicle where it was parked, then he/she may have breached the lease or tenancy agreement. Financially, however, such a breach is unlikely to be of any consequence.

Under the Case Law section on parking-prankster.com, you will find the case of Jopson v Homeguard. Read it.

For the future, I would strongly advise you to seek permission from the managers of a block of flats before parking in a residents only car park. I would not be surprised if it was another resident who reported your vehicle, particularly if it is was blocking access to his/her space.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 09:40
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emanresu
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 09:43
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QUOTE
Under the Case Law section on parking-prankster.com, you will find the case of Jopson v Homeguard.


To be read in conjunction with VCS v Crutchley which IMHO is a far better case. Backed up by Beavis.

It is not the issue of the van being there but where it was parked on on whose bit of land.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 09:43
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Eljayjay
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 10:38
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emanresu

I think that maybe either I have found the wrong case [i.e. VEHICLE PARKING SERVICES LIMITED and ALFRED CHARLES CRUTCHLEY No.C03LV701), which Mr Crutchley lost both at the original hearing and on appeal], or you have cited the wrong case.

If I am wrong, please accept my sincere apology and point me in the right direction.
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emanresu
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 11:14
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QUOTE
I think that maybe either I have found the wrong case [i.e. VEHICLE PARKING SERVICES LIMITED and ALFRED CHARLES CRUTCHLEY No.C03LV701), which Mr Crutchley lost both at the original hearing and on appeal], or you have cited the wrong case.


Nope. It is the correct one.

The case will turn on the facts. So far we know the van was there but there is no information on a) where it was parked b) on which part of the car park is was parked and c) what rights did the client have to that space.

The Circuit Judge in Crutchley clearly used the ratio in Beavis and applied it. Beavis was all about curing a nuisance. Obstruction and trespass are the two common nuisances that occur on residential sites where cars are involved and both are likely to be actionable by a PPC.

What we need to understand from the OP is where the van was parked onsite.
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kev of cov
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 13:49
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Hi all

thankyou for your comments so far

The van was not in a parking space or 'parked'. It was as close to the access door as possible for unloading. The ground it was stood on whilst being unloaded was the common driveway. We arrived, opened the doors and as soon as unloading had finished we were gone.


regards
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Macapaca
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 20:39
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Which PPC? Even though you think you are in the right the PPC thinks otherwise and so it is not recommended to ignore it.
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kev of cov
post Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 18:18
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Hi Macapaca

Thankyou for your comment

I can’t believe it – left it on my desk again, tooo keen to get home. Will be nipping in tomorrow and will report back. Will it matter? Aren’t we and all PPC’s playing by the same rules given to us by others? What I and they think is correct is of little relevance – the rules are the rules.
cheers
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Eljayjay
post Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 18:57
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No, some of the PPCs are very litigious; others don't do court.
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kev of cov
post Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 05:50
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My case seems to me to be straight forward so no PPC would go before magistrates - I'm just looking for somebody on here to shoot me down....
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Jlc
post Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 06:25
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Magistrates?

Never underestimate the power of the roboclaim and judge lottery...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Eljayjay
post Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 15:32
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Although you say "My case seems to me to be straight forward so no PPC would go before magistrates - I'm just looking for somebody on here to shoot me down...." and I am not trying to shoot you down, if you receive a letter of claim, how are you going to respond to it?

If you then receive a formal claim, you will need to submit a defence. What would your defence be?

I am not saying that you have no defence. In fact, I think that, if you do what is necessary, you could have a good defence. Nevertheless, there is little in your posts to indicate that you have a handle on what it might be.

Your talk of "magistrates" makes me doubt that you have done your homework.
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Dave65
post Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 20:37
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Not Magistrates court that's criminal.
Small claims court different thing altogether.
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