PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Court Claim - NPM
GardaBaker
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 20:39
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



Hi all,

Unfortunately within the last few days I was in receipt of a court claim from NPM for a rather large sum. I've already acknowledged receipt so have had my time to prepare a defence extended to 28 days. I'm posting here to get some advice and hopefully some help on how I can defend this claim, if that's not too much trouble.

As I know I should be careful with sharing too many details, what things am I allowed to share from the claim to better help prepare my defence?

The Particulars of Claim that they have sent with the form, are very flimsy. They have use two different amount of PCNs (i.e., they start with X PCNs and then end saying they want to claim Y PCNs), they have a date wrong about when contact was made, and they have said that the collections cycle continued but I was in receipt of no further letters. I think they have sent the letters to my old address, yet have sent new PCNs to my new address - could this warrant a potential DPA breach counterclaim?

A little backstory to the situation:
I live in a block of flats that have NPM operating in the car park, and have been issued several PCNs for not having a permit displayed in the car I own (they have pursued me as the keeper rather than the driver, despite me saying I will not tell them who the driver is). In my tenancy agreement it mentions nothing about a private parking company, but it does say I have the right to quiet enjoyment of the property. I'm trying my best to contact the landlord to see what the lease says about the parking space, but nothing so far. I found out today though that when the property was first built, there was no PPC in the area - they came later.

I have also contacted the property management company to ask if they will end this dispute, as they were the ones that hired them. They refused. I then asked for them to provide me with the contract they have with them and also with the agreement from my landlord. They refused. Which makes me believe that either they are just completely unhelpful, or they know the contract hasn't been agreed by the landlord and they have no right to be operating here.

I should note that unfortunately when the PCNs were first issued to me, I ignored them as I was under the belief that it would go no further (I read some very misguided posts when checking online) and I regret ignoring them as it was a foolish mistake - had I known what I know now, I would have kicked back straight away.

Can someone please advise me on what I should do next? I've read many posts about this issue and seeing all this information is quite overwhelming and it's a lot to take in all at once.

Many thanks,
G
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V  « < 2 3 4  
Start new topic
Replies (60 - 69)
Advertisement
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 20:39
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
GardaBaker
post Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 20:59
Post #61


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



DQ has been sent off, still waiting on theirs. I spoke with a solicitor this week as they were offering free advice, told me I should definitely take the Rule 20 route (additional claim) against either freeholder or block management. Just curious, could this backfire in any way and end up costing more money if it got to court and ruled against me?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 11:50
Post #62


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,706
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



IF you can be shown to behave unreasonably, then additional cossts can be applie against you. Otherwise its not much - hearing fee for counterclaim, if the claim si dropped, etc.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GardaBaker
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 18:42
Post #63


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 11:50) *
IF you can be shown to behave unreasonably, then additional cossts can be applie against you. Otherwise its not much - hearing fee for counterclaim, if the claim si dropped, etc.


Thanks for that, should be fine then as I've been very reasonable to all parties concerned so far.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GardaBaker
post Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 20:35
Post #64


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



So got told by the estate agent that the landlord and them will not be doing anything as they have spoken with the building management who say that the PCNs were issued legally and if not, then that's for the PPC to deal with.

Now I'm at the point where I either carry on as normal and wait until the notice of transfer/allocation or I request for another party to be added on to the claim (landlord or estate agent) and then deal with all that that brings. Not sure if it's worth the hassle of doing this, or I should skip it - just wondering if this goes south then I don't want to be in a position where I'm forced to pay more than the current ridiculous amount.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 07:52
Post #65


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,706
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Of course they wash their hands of it. However one of them hired the PPC, so they can tell them to cancel. Organ grinder not monkey in the relationship.

Its your choice, of course. Just dont pay. Even if you lose in a hearing, you WILL cost them more than they can recover.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eljayjay
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 14:04
Post #66


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 459
Joined: 1 Apr 2017
Member No.: 91,235



In case you feel the need for further arguments, here are some...

If you still do not have a copy of your landlord's lease, i.e. the head lease, you can obtain one from the Land Registry by completing a form OC2 and paying a relatively small fee.

If you have (or know someone who has) some decent PDF software (e.g. Nitro Pro or a decent version of Adobe), once you have the lease, scan it, and then convert it into a searchable PDF file, and then search for "park". Otherwise, you need to undertake the search the hard way, simply by reading the lease thoroughly.

The chances are that the lease will say nothing about parking permits, parking tickets or parking charges.

You have mentioned in an earlier post your belief that it was the management company who entered into the parking agreement with the parking company. Unless there is a clause in the lease which obliges or permits the management company to handle parking matters - and there very often is not - you can argue that the management company have acted beyond their powers by entering into the agreement.

The only payments that the lease is likely to demand are ground rent and service charges. It no doubt imposes those charges on your landlord. So, even if the management company has some responsibility for parking matters, the lease is unlikely to give the management company (or, even, the freeholder) the right to demand charges over and above the usual ground rent and service charges or to impose those charges on you.

As you are a sub-tenant, your relationship is with your landlord. Your tenancy agreement is with your landlord. It is not with the freeholder or the management company. Your landlord's lease almost certainly contains wording (along the lines of what follows) requiring that "the underlease [i.e. your tenancy agreement] contains tenants covenants substantially the same as those contained in this lease and imposes regulations the same as those contained in the Regulations" and "the underlease provides that the undertenant [i.e. you] must not do anything that would or might cause the Tenant [i.e. your landlord] to be in breach of the Tenant Covenants".

If I recall correctly, your tenancy says nothing about parking restrictions and requirements. So, you can argue that, even if any valid parking rules and regulations apply to your landlord, they do not apply to you (because your landlord has never made you aware of them) and that, if there is a case to answer, it would be between the parties to the head lease for a possible breach of the lease by your landlord.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GardaBaker
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 20:32
Post #67


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 14:04) *
In case you feel the need for further arguments, here are some...

If you still do not have a copy of your landlord's lease, i.e. the head lease, you can obtain one from the Land Registry by completing a form OC2 and paying a relatively small fee.

If you have (or know someone who has) some decent PDF software (e.g. Nitro Pro or a decent version of Adobe), once you have the lease, scan it, and then convert it into a searchable PDF file, and then search for "park". Otherwise, you need to undertake the search the hard way, simply by reading the lease thoroughly.

The chances are that the lease will say nothing about parking permits, parking tickets or parking charges.

You have mentioned in an earlier post your belief that it was the management company who entered into the parking agreement with the parking company. Unless there is a clause in the lease which obliges or permits the management company to handle parking matters - and there very often is not - you can argue that the management company have acted beyond their powers by entering into the agreement.

The only payments that the lease is likely to demand are ground rent and service charges. It no doubt imposes those charges on your landlord. So, even if the management company has some responsibility for parking matters, the lease is unlikely to give the management company (or, even, the freeholder) the right to demand charges over and above the usual ground rent and service charges or to impose those charges on you.

As you are a sub-tenant, your relationship is with your landlord. Your tenancy agreement is with your landlord. It is not with the freeholder or the management company. Your landlord's lease almost certainly contains wording (along the lines of what follows) requiring that "the underlease [i.e. your tenancy agreement] contains tenants covenants substantially the same as those contained in this lease and imposes regulations the same as those contained in the Regulations" and "the underlease provides that the undertenant [i.e. you] must not do anything that would or might cause the Tenant [i.e. your landlord] to be in breach of the Tenant Covenants".

If I recall correctly, your tenancy says nothing about parking restrictions and requirements. So, you can argue that, even if any valid parking rules and regulations apply to your landlord, they do not apply to you (because your landlord has never made you aware of them) and that, if there is a case to answer, it would be between the parties to the head lease for a possible breach of the lease by your landlord.


Thank you for this. I'll give this form a go and see what turns up from it - I can imagine you're right about there being no mention of parking permits, etc. I'll give an update on it when I receive it. Thanks once again.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GardaBaker
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 17:19
Post #68


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



So the deadline for the DQ has passed, and I’ve not received their DQ. Will be calling up MoneyClaim tomorrow to advise this, does this mean the claim could be thrown out?

Also, I’ve contacted Land Registry and there isn’t a lease for my flat registered with them... The same freeholder owns all the flats in the building, and I can see a lease for another flat. Shall I request a copy of that lease to see what it says about the car park or would it be pointless as it’s for another flat?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 08:00
Post #69


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,706
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



If they have not complied with the ordered deadline, then yet it shoudl be struck out by the court.
ask for this
But first, ask if THEY have a copy, having explained YOU do not have a copy.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GardaBaker
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 11:15
Post #70


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,500



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 08:00) *
If they have not complied with the ordered deadline, then yet it shoudl be struck out by the court.
ask for this
But first, ask if THEY have a copy, having explained YOU do not have a copy.


Thanks Nos, I just called and they said they’re a week behind with the post (quoted the same date that I got quote on Friday so no headway has been made). They’ve said that once they’ve caught up they’ll send a chaser to any party that hasn’t sent a DQ in giving them a further 7 days. Bit annoying as they said if it takes them a week to catch up with the post, they’ll give them 7 days from that point. Guess it’s just the waiting game now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  « < 2 3 4
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 24th June 2018 - 07:26
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.