PPC about to be introduced because of CPZ Options

[I-LOV-MONEY]

The area where I live has had so many new developments (built without parking arrangements), the Council in their wisdom are introducing a CPZ throughout the area. I am lucky that my street is unadopted by the local council and therefore not subject to the CPZ. However, to prevent everyone descending onto the street, the Management company that run the estate have employed PCM to control the parking arrangements. As much as I detest the PPCs, I realise it has to be done.

However, firstly the signage, is there anything incorrect? There are signs about every third lampost along the street.



The letter to residents says it will be enforced Monday to Friday (ie not weekends). The sign just says "24 hours" and no reference to particular days. I suppose once word gets round, people maybe tempted to park here at weekends, but we are a bus ride away from shops and stations.

In the letter they say they are charging £10 per book of 10 cards for visitors at a charge of £10 per book PLUS £2 for them to be sent recorded delivery. (We own a property in a different area, and my wife spends a lot of time there as a student, and rarely parks here, so her permit will become a 'visitor's permit' !).

The letter from PCM also says that "Your Housing Association has no jurisdiction over enforced vehicles and under no circumstances will they act as mediators in any case concerning enforcement action of any vehicles". As they have employed PCM, surely they should be able to tell them to drop a case?

So just wondered if anybody had any thoughts. What are PCM like as a parking company?

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[Redivi]

What are PCM like as a parking company?

It's about the worst company your management agent could possibly employ

It's a rogue former clamper that turned to aggressive ticketing when its business was banned

It was so bad as a clamper that Windsor Council issued an ASBO against the company

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...l#ixzz0R50fUPSy

Your management agent has been seriously negligent when five minutes on Google would have told it exactly who it was dealing with

[I-LOV-MONEY]

Thank you for that Redivi.

Were Windsor sucessful in gaining an ASBO against them, do you know?

I note that PCM are now part of IPC. Does that make any difference?

This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:12

[Redivi]

Were Windsor successful in gaining an ASBO against them, do you know?

The council voted unanimously to impose ASBOs
As they couldn't impose them on a company, they targeted the individual employees
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...g-tourists.html

I note that PCM are now part of IPC. Does that make any difference?

The IPC is a rival trade association to the BPA
It was formed by a group of doormen, debt collectors and former clampers
It's basically an association for the more disreputable members of the parking industry that aren't prepared to meet the (still low) standards of the BPA
They didn't like the BPA POPLA second stage appeals process that was accepting most of the appeals against their parking notices

The IPC attraction is a low cost "independent" second appeals system that played fair to the motorist just long enough to con the DVLA that it was genuine
As soon as the DVLA recognised the IPC and granted its members unrestricted access to the keeper database, the rules changed
The appeals service guarantees now that it will reject at least 85% of appeals

[Jlc]

...and they appear to roboclaim every ticket.

[Redivi]

Does your lease make any mention of parking ?

If so, it's very likely that your management agent doesn't have the legal capacity to employ PCM

[Umkomaas]

PCM-UK - exposed by BBC Watchdog a few short years ago. Says it all.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015...f-all-time.html

@OP, given your past experiences with PPCs both here on PePiPoo and MSE, I’m surprised you are finding anything remotely positive about the introduction of a predator to your living space!

[I-LOV-MONEY]

@OP, given your past experiences with PPCs both here on PePiPoo and MSE, I’m surprised you are finding anything remotely positive about the introduction of a predator to your living space!

I know ... however if all the roads around the area are going to be restricted, we will have everybody decending on us if we have no restrictions.

If so, it's very likely that your management agent doesn't have the legal capacity to employ PCM

That maybe the case, but as explained to Umkomaas, it is a necessity.


Unfortunately, the Daily Mail article and the Watchdog report are all several years old Is there anything more recent, who knows the 'leopard may have changed its spots' !

...and they appear to roboclaim every ticket.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 22:05

[Redivi]

Unfortunately, the Daily Mail article and the Watchdog report are all several years old Is there anything more recent, who knows the 'leopard may have changed its spots' !

Judging by all the threads involving Hayes and Harlington station, it certainly hasn't

[emanresu]

Who actually owns the area they are patrolling? If it is a space that you have rights to, then get the clarfied now rather than later.

If you have no prior rights, then it will up to the driver to take great care of what they do given that they should be aware of the signs if they live there.

PCM are aggressive but like all bullies they back down given sufficient application of pressure to sensitive parts.

[The Slithy Tove]

Can't a controlled entry system be arranged, e.g. a barrier and keyfobs? OK, it'll cost more than the zero it'll cost the HA to employ PCM, but maybe they should be aware of the potential cost to them when they are on the receiving end of counter-claims from the residents WHEN (not if) it all goes pear-shaped. Or lockable posts on all the spaces?
You should certainly refuse to pay any money for visitors permits. They should be free and unlimited. Who do they think they are to impose such restrictions?

[Redivi]

You should certainly refuse to pay any money for visitors permits. They should be free and unlimited. Who do they think they are to impose such restrictions?

Definitely

In my view this makes the situation many times worse because making the payment means that you won't be able to deny that you've entered into a contract with PCM

[I-LOV-MONEY]

Looking at it from the HA point of view, they want to restrict the parking on their road. They approach PCM (who already operate in the area) who say they will be able to provide the service at no cost to the HA. So far as they are concerned 'job done'. The residents, having free permits are happy - it is only the visitors that may complain; but they have no connection with the HA.

It has just occurred to me; if the residents all apply for a second permit (you are sent one, and need to apply for the second) whether they have a second car or not; that could be exchanged between neighbours as a 'visitor's permit' ! Although parking spaces are marked out, they are not specifically allocated. It is on a first-come basis. At present there is always space around my house, but I know other parts of the street there are no 'spare' spaces.


This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 09:02

[ManxRed]

Do you not have to specify the car reg number when applying for a permit?

[The Rookie]

PPC’s love being able to hand out more permits than spaces, they know what it will mean at some point.

Why on earth they chose one of the worst PPC’s they could have is beyond me, there are others that would have also been free yet provide a less parasitical service. I’m willing to bet the HA haven’t ensured they have a right to cancel as well.

[Glacier2]

The HA think they are on a winner with a FREE service. They need to be told the pitfalls of hiring these people.

[emanresu]

Who do they think they are to impose such restrictions?

AFAIK they are the owners of the road and can do what they can reasonably want. Insisting on permits is reasonable.

And since this is the Flame Pit, you should know that there are now quite a few people who have Charge Orders on their property for thinking that parking is "free". It has turned out to be an expensive life lesson in property law.

It would pay motorists to gen up on that as well as the Highway Code. The parking game has changed out of all recognition and not in a good way.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 18:51

[The Slithy Tove]

Who do they think they are to impose such restrictions?

AFAIK they are the owners of the road and can do what they can reasonably want. Insisting on permits is reasonable.

I was actually referring to insisting residents PAY to get visitors permits. That, and the restrictions in general, rather depend on what the residents' leases say. Always more tricky with housing associations as the contractual relationship is different from that of a more normal landlord/leasee.

[emanresu]

Always more tricky with housing associations as the contractual relationship is different from that of a more normal landlord/leasee.

Correct which is why I said ..

If it is a space that you have rights to, then get the clarfied now rather than later.

Getting your rights clarified does not mean asking on an internet forum. It means getting the paperwork in front of a qualified legal person with knowledge of property law. The PPC may have and there are indications that some of the PPCs are doing this. Others are just railroading drivers but you won't know which until you are facing a few claims.

With HA property there is no risk of the earlier comment about Charging Orders which only apply to owned property. So it will be endless harassment, attachment of earnings, or bailiffs if you are unlucky enough to collect a few of these and lose at court. If this is the case, it will be a N244, N245 and EX160 forms that are needed.



This post has been edited by emanresu: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 04:54

[I-LOV-MONEY]

Do you not have to specify the car reg number when applying for a permit?

Apologies for the late reply. I wasn't alerted that there were new posts.


When I applied for an additional permit they asked for a copy of the V5 certificate showing the address of the property (or the insurance certificate). However, when the first permit was issued they were addressed to the 'Resident/Occupier' of the property address. Therefore they don't know which cars are registered other than the 'second' one. I presume when they come round to check permits they will just check there is a permit on show ... although they have a serial number, do you think they will check that? Anyway, to be sure, I would make sure that the 'second' permit is the one on display, and the original one can be given to a visitor!

PPC’s love being able to hand out more permits than spaces, they know what it will mean at some point.

Why on earth they chose one of the worst PPC’s they could have is beyond me, there are others that would have also been free yet provide a less parasitical service. I’m willing to bet the HA haven’t ensured they have a right to cancel as well.

Even before regulation there are always a few spaces available. As this will stop non-residents/visitors parking, there should always be a parking space available.

I intend writing to the HA (I am already in touch with them on another matter), with comments about the PPC, and why they need to introduce it before the CPZ is due to take effect.

The HA think they are on a winner with a FREE service. They need to be told the pitfalls of hiring these people.

Please give me the reasons, so that I can put it to them.

And since this is the Flame Pit, you should know that there are now quite a few people who have Charge Orders on their property for thinking that parking is "free". It has turned out to be an expensive life lesson in property law.

It would pay motorists to gen up on that as well as the Highway Code. The parking game has changed out of all recognition and not in a good way.

Why isn't it free? We were given free permits, and provided they are displayed, they surely is no charge.

Why has this post gone to 'The Flame Pit' rather than the general postings?


This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 15:10