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Incorrect details on a red route pcn
8lamps8
post Tue, 8 May 2018 - 20:38
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Hi I received a pcn on a red route for returning to a bay within the two hours. I was first logged by the ceo at 08.51 and then again at 10.07 so he issued a pcn. The pcn only has the time of 08.51 on it so reads as if it was issued at 08.51. I made an informal representation stating I believed the pcn was incorrectly issued as I was legally parked at 08.51 TFL have rejected it saying I now have to wait for the notice to owner to either appeal or pay. Does anyone have any advice on whether I can challenge this? Many thanks
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post Tue, 8 May 2018 - 20:38
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 11 May 2018 - 20:31
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just re reading. we are waiting for the NTO in order to make formal reps. these need be more detailed. Will do tomorrow


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 21:31
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 21:31) *
just re reading. we are waiting for the NTO in order to make formal reps. these need be more detailed. Will do tomorrow



haven't forgotten. new granddaughter keeping me busy. will get done by the time you have the nto. please post it upon receipt

2180138625

2060529906

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 21:51


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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 18:42
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Representations against PCN number xxxxx

dear Mr parking

I make these representations on the multiple grounds

1:- That there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority; regulation 4(4)(f) of the appeals regulations.

Schedule 1(1) of the general regulations list the information that a PCn must contain in order to comply with statute.

at (1)(e) the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable is required
at 1(1)(d) the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred; are required.

I parked my car within the confines of the parking bay in question at approximately 08.30. This being the case, the bay allowing parking for one hour. No contravention could occur until 09.30. The PCN states at 08.51 on DD/MM/YY my car was seen in circumstances that give the CEO reason to believe that a contravention occurred. My car was parked lawfully in a permitted parking bay at 08.51 and the CEO could have no reason to believe otherwise. The time printed on the PCN neither states it is the time of contravention a PI of its self it is also comfortable within the allowed time of one hour

2: -That the alleged contravention did not occur;

As stated above the PCN is required to state the reason it is believed a contravention occurs. This PCN states "Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway"
The TMO creates a parking bay with a one hour restriction. I could not be stopped where prohibited within a parking bay that is open to all classes of vehicle within the time allowed by the TMO

The PCN fails to inform me in a manner that I can understand the grounds for issue are

7(2) of the appeals regulation requires that if a statutory ground is made out that the PCN must be cancelled. This PCN fails on three grounds , two instances of PI and one of contravention did not occur. As such TfL should now cancel this PCN

This needs a fair bit of tidying, (having a hypo) but i keep saying I'd get it done

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Sun, 20 May 2018 - 18:44


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DastardlyDick
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 19:48
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 20 May 2018 - 19:42) *
Representations against PCN number xxxxx

dear Mr parking

I make these representations on the multiple grounds

1:- That there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority; regulation 4(4)(f) of the appeals regulations.

Schedule 1(1) of the general regulations list the information that a PCn must contain in order to comply with statute.

at (1)(e) the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable is required
at 1(1)(d) the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred; are required.

I parked my car within the confines of the parking bay in question at approximately 08.30. This being the case, the bay allowing parking for one hour. No contravention could occur until 09.30. The PCN states at 08.51 on DD/MM/YY my car was seen in circumstances that give the CEO reason to believe that a contravention occurred. My car was parked lawfully in a permitted parking bay at 08.51 and the CEO could have no reason to believe otherwise. The time printed on the PCN neither states it is the time of contravention a PI of its self it is also comfortable within the allowed time of one hour

2: -That the alleged contravention did not occur;

As stated above the PCN is required to state the reason it is believed a contravention occurs. This PCN states "Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway"
The TMO creates a parking bay with a one hour restriction. I could not be stopped where prohibited within a parking bay that is open to all classes of vehicle within the time allowed by the TMO

The PCN fails to inform me in a manner that I can understand the grounds for issue are

7(2) of the appeals regulation requires that if a statutory ground is made out that the PCN must be cancelled. This PCN fails on three grounds , two instances of PI and one of contravention did not occur. As such TfL should now cancel this PCN

This needs a fair bit of tidying, (having a hypo) but i keep saying I'd get it done


OP When you use this, don't forget to include the two Case References PMB supplied in his previous post - just add "Case References..... refer at the bottom.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 21:25
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Late on this one but we've seen these PCNs before and they are defective. It implies that the recipient has to wait for the NTO before he or she can make representations --totally prejudicial IMO. That is exacerbated by the PCN missing bits from the Appeals Regs esp representations being considered? :-
(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

(b)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i)those representations will be considered;

(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sun, 20 May 2018 - 21:36
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