PCN Contravention 31J, Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited |
Helping the motorist get justice 
Helping the motorist get justice
PCN Contravention 31J, Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited |
  Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 17:06
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,771  |
Dear All,
I am new to this forum so have some patience  with me.I receive the attached PCN from London borough of Hounslow (filename PCN.PDF) 
PCN.pdf ( 65.85K )
Number of downloads: 148and made the representation as given in attached file (Penalty Charge Notice.PDF)
penalty_charge_notice.pdf ( 47.41K )
Number of downloads: 133. However, London Borough of Hounslow rejected my representation see attached file (Council response.PDF)
Council_response.pdf ( 69.82K )
Number of downloads: 131. I am at the stage of preparing my appeal to the Adjudicator but seeking some advise so as to make my case. Also attached is a photo showing my vehicle entering box junction
I will be really grateful for your input if further clarification is required don't hesitate to contact me. Best regards Ninja69 |
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Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 17:06
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Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 17:31
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Without sight of the video there is not much to be said, I representation incorrect in it's facts, responded to quite well for a change. I would suggest you take advantage of the re offered discount
but if you intend to appeal post the rest of the pcn and the video -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 20:16
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#3
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Page missing of NOR. Similarly PCN.
This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 20:17 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 22:38
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,771 |
Thanks for your quick response.
Find attached the additional info requested.
View video PCN: NJ54280049 Reg: PJ06DOG |
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Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 23:09
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,346 Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,352 |
I’ve looked at the video but can’t see any grounds for an appeal which would convince an Adjudicator. The stop is far too long for de minimis.
The driver in front of you appears to give a master class on how to get out of a yellow box – and it looks if that vehicle may possibly have re-joined the traffic flow further on rather than turning right. Even if so that would not help you. See what others think and whether they find anything in the documentation. |
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Mon, 13 Mar 2017 - 17:47
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,771 |
Correct the vehicle did re-join the traffic later on. Note however, temporary traffic lights was erected after junction box as road works was carried out in the area. The only time I realised I was in a box junction is when the driver in front of me be pull over as though he was about to turn right.
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Mon, 13 Mar 2017 - 18:13
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,346 Joined: 10 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,352 |
I've looked again and cant see any grounds. You are saying you did not see the YBJ and that there were road works but those arguments will not, in my view, get you anywhere. Other drivers stopped to look first, and one managed a Houdini. You did not.
Others may look and see something on the video or Hounslow's' docs. But if they dont then dont miss the deadline for the discounted payment. |
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Fri, 17 Mar 2017 - 14:56
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,771 |
Hi All - any further input?
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Sat, 18 Mar 2017 - 09:54
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 21,013 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Pay the discount, unless you want to take them to London Tribunals on the point made by Hippocrates on #3. Not a guaranteed win, though, and you have to risk the whole £130.
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Sun, 19 Mar 2017 - 17:12
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#10
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 10 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,771 |
Thanks guys for the input
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