Disabled badge used, Need help with rejected appeal Options

[SxcQueenE]

Hi, dropped my dad, my mom and his wheelchair as close to a venue as possible and parked across the road in the disabled bay and displayed his blue badge as necessary, saw two parking wardens but didn't think anything of it until returning to my car to find a ticked on it. I obviously appealed and stated that the blue badge was displayed. They rejected my appeal and stated the warden only saw me get out the car, which is correct as I had dropped them as close as possible to avoid the kerbs for my dad in the wheelchair and as it was wet in the ground. The ticket given had reason down as not clearly displaying the blue badge in a disabled bay...so I obviously appealed this as the badge was displayed. I didn't think you couldn't park in the bay unless you are directly getting him out the car in the bay? When we left the venue, he obviously needed to be close to the venue so not sure what the issue was in me parking in the bay as it was used and needed upon leaving the venue? Any help would be appreciated

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[Neil B]

We need to see the PCN, your challenge, the rejection, Council pics and a GSV link.

Venue? For what?

[TigerRob]

Post up the PCN, your challenge and their rejection. This sounds like it should be an easy win.

[DancingDad]

One of those grayish areas as they can argue that once Dad dropped, you had no need for the disabled bay.
Counter is that Dad needed car close by and parking was directly for Dad's benefit.
And that while dropped at the venue, intention was to take Dad back to the car.

Let's see the PCN, location and details please.
Plus what venue ?

[SxcQueenE]

Have attached the PCN I received, I cannot get my appeal as it was done online via their website and was never sent a copy but it was along the lines of the fact that you can clearly see the badge displayed and can even be seen in their own evidence as thats what I thought the charge was about as thats what the PCN states the reason was, will post the rejection letter

I say venue but they dont have parking, it was road parking by a venue (REP Birmingham) but we was taking him to the library (attached to the REP) as he doesnt get to go out much, has dementia and thought looking at some books from his childhood would be a good idea as hes fed up being stuck in the house, he has prostrate cancer also and has had a hip replacement so cannot lift his legs up kurbs but is not too bad going down, hence why I dropped him off on the kurb side and parked across the road for his exit

I say venue but they dont have parking, it was road parking by a venue (REP Birmingham) but we was taking him to the library (attached to the REP) as he doesnt get to go out much, has dementia and thought looking at some books from his childhood would be a good idea as hes fed up being stuck in the house, he has prostrate cancer also and has had a hip replacement so cannot lift his legs up kurbs but is not too bad going down, hence why I dropped him off on the kurb side and parked across the road for his exit

this was the reply I got;


Parking - Penalty Charge Notice Number BM10862880
Dated - 24/11/2018
Registration number - VO57PJU

Thank you for your enquiry concerning the Penalty Charge Notice detailed above.
Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.
The Penalty Charge Notice was issued to your vehicle as it was observed parked in
contravention of the restrictions in force.

It is noted that you state you had a valid blue badge on display in your vehicle. The
vehicle was seen being parked in a disabled parking bay by Civil Enforcement Officer
BM1161, whilst patrolling in Brindley Drive. On inspecting the vehicle he observed a
blue badge on display and checking the details found that it belonged to an 82 year
old male. The driver he observed leaving the vehicle, who passed him on the
pavement, was a younger female. There was no other occupant in the car and on
the basis that the blue badge was not being used for the benefit of the badge holder,
a Penalty Charge Notice was issued.

In view of this, I regret there are no grounds for the Penalty Charge Notice to be
withdrawn and payment is required in settlement of the matter.
In accordance with Birmingham City Council’s Discretion Policy, each case is judged
on its own merits, taking into account the exceptionality of the circumstances. The
decision to enforce this case has therefore been made in accordance with this policy
which can be viewed on www.birmingham.gov.uk/pcn.

You may still take advantage of the reduced charge of £35.00 payment for the
Penalty Charge Notice is received by the 06/02/2019, BUT the discounted rate is not
available after this date and the full charge of £70.00 will be due if payment is not
received in time.

If you would like to make payment by credit or debit card, please telephone 0121 667
4964 (call charges from mobiles will vary), this service is available 24 hours a day, 7
days a week, or pay on-line www.birmingham.gov.uk/PCN. Ple

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[TigerRob]

Unfortunately I can't find it now, but just yesterday I was reading a LT case where the adjudicator accepted that if the blue badge was displayed then from a parking enforcement perspective everything was good.

His argument was that fraudulent use of a blue badge was a criminal offence and fell outside the remit of the adjudicators.

[PASTMYBEST]

For a BB to be used legally the disabled person does not have to be the driver, the vehicle has to be being used to carry them. How fall from the parking place did you drop off your dad



I am making an assumption from your opening post that you dropped dad at the lowered kerb then pulled forward to the BB bays, please confirm or correct


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4802454,-...3312!8i6656



This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 14:14

[DancingDad]

If you haven't got the text of the challenge, what did you say to them, summarise it pls.
And always keep what you write, if it is not written down it did not happen.

The statement they make that the BB was not being used for the benefit as a young man was seen displaying it is a belief that can be challenged and overturned.
At best it is simply a guess about fraudulent use and Birmingham have officials who are employed directly to deal with that.
Normal practice is to phone the BB holder and check whereabouts.... but I digress on that.


I assume round the back of the Rep/library area, which if I recall correctly has DYLs and Loading blips all over the place so can drop off but cannot park even with a BB.

Once we get details sorted on this, should be winnable.

[PASTMYBEST]

Here is the case rob mentioned

2180470133

his is an appeal against a penalty charge notice for parking in a disabled bay without displaying a valid disabled badge.
In short, the Respondent says that the disabled badge was not valid due to the fact that it was not being used by a disabled person but was in fact being used by his Brother in a manner which was incorrect.
The Appellant says that the badge was being used in a correct manner and he was present with his brother.
In short, the Respondent has launched a targeted investigation into blue badge fraud in their area and determined that on this occasion the badge was being used fraudulently.
This places the Tribunal in an unusual position. The Respondent is alleging, effectively, criminality on the part of the Appellant. They say, as a result of that criminality that the blue badge (which was displayed perfectly properly from the perspective of badge and clock), was invalid because the Appellant's brother was not present and it is to him whom the blue badge relates.
The Respondent has provided some evidence to support their position in this regard and I am able to understand why they issued the PCN. However, there is no finding to a criminal standard (by a competent Court) that this is proved.
It follows there are evidential and legal difficulties with their approach. Firstly, the Respondent is bound to prove on the balance of probabilities that the blue badge was being used incorrectly. On the evidence before me, I am not so satisfied. I had witness evidence which had no declaration of truth attached to it and involved hearsay.
Also, I was obliged to (and did) warn the Appellant as to his right against self-incrimination. I take the view that it is not appropriate for me, in this Tribunal to make findings of fact as to the validity of the blue badge which would necessarily involve findings which may amount to criminality.
I have therefore looked at the circumstances in the round and determined as follows: the badge was displayed correctly in the sense that it was face up and the clock was showing. I decline to make any further findings as to the allegation that it was being misused at the material time, I do so as I am of the view that I do not have the statutory authority to do so. My authority is strictly limited by statute and I am acutely aware of the fact that the Appellant is a lay person who may be unaware of his common law and statutory rights.
I therefore allow the appeal as I am not satisfied to the civil standard that the contravention occurred. I decline to make any findings as to the allegation that the Blue Badge was being used fraudulently.

[TigerRob]

Here is the case rob mentioned

2180470133

That's the one - thank you CP.

[SxcQueenE]

I dropped my dad off at the kurb which was on the corner of Cambridge Street meeting with the road where I received the ticked which was less that 30m away. I dropped him off on the side of the rep/library and usually bump my car on the kurb so he is elevated which is easier for him to ease himself into the wheelchair from the car seat. I didn't think it would be an issue to then park in a bay ready for when we left...is it also ok for them to observe for 2 minutes and give a ticket also? It's like they wanted to quickly do the ticket and go, had they have asked me why I was parking there I would have simply explained why :-(

[TigerRob]

Back to basics.

Please can we see (redact only VRM, PCN number, names and addresses:
- all sides of the PCN
- any CEO photos from the council's website
- your challenge (a summary to the best of your recollection if you don't have it)
- all sides of the decline of your informal challenge

Upload images to an external site (e.g. imagebb.com) and post links here.

From what I've seen I'd take this all the way, but that woudl be with the full £70 in play. It's your money so its not my decision ...

[SxcQueenE]

PCN

Photo evidence on Birmingham city website

more

pictures

more

My summary was basically stating that the badge is clearly visible as shown in their own pictures used as evidence and that it is a valid badge and was displayed on the dashboard as it should, it was very brief and as simple as that as I was responding to the code broken that I didnt display a valid blue badge

back of PCN

back of pcn

This post has been edited by SxcQueenE: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 17:58

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

Attached File(s)

 Scan0009.pdf ( 251.38K ) Number of downloads: 34
 Scan0010.pdf ( 336.34K ) Number of downloads: 16

 

[Mad Mick V]

This can escalate into illegal use if the OP is not careful.

BB Booklet:-

It is a criminal offence to drive a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge unless the badge holder is in
the vehicle, or the vehicle is being driven by someone other than the badge holder for the purpose
of entering or leaving an area (which is accessible only to vehicles displaying a Blue Badge) in
order to pick up or drop off the holder.

If the CEO saw the vehicle enter a disabled bay without the BB holder then this must be addressed head on.

The simplest way is a statement from the BB holder indicating what happened.

Mick

[SxcQueenE]

Letter received page 1

wont let me post rejection letter as its file is too big but I will copy and paste;

Dear Miss Lennon
Parking - Penalty Charge Notice Number BM10862880
Dated - 24/11/2018
Registration number - VO57PJU
Thank you for your enquiry concerning the Penalty Charge Notice detailed above.
Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.
The Penalty Charge Notice was issued to your vehicle as it was observed parked in
contravention of the restrictions in force.
It is noted that you state you had a valid blue badge on display in your vehicle. The
vehicle was seen being parked in a disabled parking bay by Civil Enforcement Officer
BM1161, whilst patrolling in Brindley Drive. On inspecting the vehicle he observed a
blue badge on display and checking the details found that it belonged to an 82 year
old male. The driver he observed leaving the vehicle, who passed him on the
pavement, was a younger female. There was no other occupant in the car and on
the basis that the blue badge was not being used for the benefit of the badge holder,
a Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
In view of this, I regret there are no grounds for the Penalty Charge Notice to be
withdrawn and payment is required in settlement of the matter.
In accordance with Birmingham City Council’s Discretion Policy, each case is judged
on its own merits, taking into account the exceptionality of the circumstances. The
decision to enforce this case has therefore been made in accordance with this policy
which can be viewed on www.birmingham.gov.uk/pcn.
You may still take advantage of the reduced charge of £35.00 payment for the
Penalty Charge Notice is received by the 06/02/2019, BUT the discounted rate is not
available after this date and the full charge of £70.00 will be due if payment is not
received in time.
If you would like to make payment by credit or debit card, please telephone 0121 667
4964 (call charges from mobiles will vary), this service is available 24 hours a day, 7
days a week, or pay on-line www.birmingham.gov.uk/PCN. Please have the Penalty
Charge Notice number and your credit card details available.

[DancingDad]

Flaming hell, CEO went to town.
Remove the pics with the VIN number on and the BB (or obscure the number)


As long as you remain credible, possibly all the way to adjudication, I cannot see you losing this one.
If council believe that the BB was being used fraudulently, it is within their remit to investigate and potentially to bring criminal charges.
But from what you have told us, this is simply not the case, the journey and the parking was directly for the benefit of Dad.

That is legitimate use.
Different matter had you dropped Dad off and then parked miles away but a matter of a few metres and rejoined Dad.
The parking would have been legitimate even if you had arrived on your own to join Dad, as long as intention was to take Dad back in that car at the end of the visit.
They cannot get a criminal charge to stick as long as your story is truthful and you stick to the story, they cannot use suspicion to enforce this PCN.

[SxcQueenE]

To me this was not illegal use, I was making use of what was needed to make my dads journey as easy as possible for all of us. I didnt know you cant use the space to pick someone up who is disabled and has a valid disabled badge. He does not drive but I take him to his appointment etc in my car and the badge is registered to my car...the council clearly know this as it asks on the form whos car the badge is for...?

I cannot get a statement from my dad as he has dementia and he cannot write anymore. My mom who was with me on the day is his power of attorney so she could do it but will that be enough for to challenge the rejection?

[DancingDad]

To me this was not illegal use, I was making use of what was needed to make my dads journey as easy as possible for all of us. I didnt know you cant use the space to pick someone up who is disabled and has a valid disabled badge. He does not drive but I take him to his appointment etc in my car and the badge is registered to my car...the council clearly know this as it asks on the form whos car the badge is for...?

I cannot get a statement from my dad as he has dementia and he cannot write anymore. My mom who was with me on the day is his power of attorney so she could do it but will that be enough for to challenge the rejection?

We agree with you but please, what did you write to them?
A summary if not the exact text?


It may be that you will have to wait for the NTO but I am looking to see if and how we can tackle this now.

[TigerRob]

I cannot get a statement from my dad as he has dementia and he cannot write anymore. My mom who was with me on the day is his power of attorney so she could do it but will that be enough for to challenge the rejection?

That should be good enough. Other will help with exact form, but you'll get mum to make a witness statement ....

[SxcQueenE]

My summary was basically stating that the badge is clearly visible as shown in their own pictures used as evidence and that it is a valid badge and was displayed on the dashboard as it should, it was very brief and as simple as that as I was responding to the code broken that I didnt display a valid blue badge, it went something along these line;

I received a PCN from you guys and have looked at the evident picture you have attached and even in your own evidence you can clearly see the blue badge is displayed so not sure why this PCN was even issued in the first place. The badge is clearly displayed on the dashboard and the expiry date can be seen and is fully valid and certified. Please have this ticket cancelled as I dont know why you would have issued it to begin with