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Advice needed
Phooey
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 12:56
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Ok guys I need some advice.

On 26/09/2016 I got flashed doing 69mph on the M5 in a 60mph variable speed limit zone. I admit the offence and went online and paid my fine and then filled in the little form and sent my licence to wherever it said on the form.

I pretty much forgot all about it untill I needed my licence early this year and realised that I hadn't received it back so I went online again and requested a replacemenet which I received ages ago.

Today I have received a court summons for the speeding offence and failure to inform of the identity of the driver.

My bank statement confirms that I paid which surely is admission of guilt but I can't prove that I sent my licence off because I didn't get a receipt.

How do I preceed with the court. Do I plead guilty? I've paid and sent off licence just didn't check up when it didn't return or do I plead not guilty and risk a massive fine which I can ill afford since I am soon to be unemployed?

Your thoughts please?
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post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 12:56
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StuartBu
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 13:05
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What was it you got that prompted you to send off the payment... usually the first you hear is a S172 request to name the driver as they need to know who the driver was...it could be anyone
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Phooey
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 13:17
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 13:05) *
What was it you got that prompted you to send off the payment... usually the first you hear is a S172 request to name the driver as they need to know who the driver was...it could be anyone



Thanks for the reply. I don't know what the number was but the letter did ask for confirmation of who the driver was and details of how to pay the fine. It had several options like admit guilt, name who was driving or contest the charge. Not necessarily in those words.

I chose to pay online and confirmed that I was the driver ... can't remember if this was also online or by snail-mail!

They are challenging that they didn't receive my licence not that the fine wasn't paid! I sent it but apparantly they didn't receive it.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 13:28
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Which constabulary? A very few give you the option of paying a fine with the first communication, most require the driver to be named first before then sending out an offer (course, fixed penalty).


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Phooey
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 14:11
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 13:28) *
Which constabulary? A very few give you the option of paying a fine with the first communication, most require the driver to be named first before then sending out an offer (course, fixed penalty).



Hmmm ... can't remember if I had to confirm first or not.

Avon and Somerset Constabulary!
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The Rookie
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 14:27
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OK, I guessed it would be A and S do use a super NIP.

What won't help not having phoned up and chased your licence when you realised it either hadn't arrived or hadn't been returned.

Is the summons for both speeding and the S172 or just the S172?




--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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SatNavSam
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 19:43
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Has the money been refunded between then and now?


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Phooey
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 19:45
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 14:27) *
OK, I guessed it would be A and S do use a super NIP.

What won't help not having phoned up and chased your licence when you realised it either hadn't arrived or hadn't been returned.

Is the summons for both speeding and the S172 or just the S172?



Both. But I paid the fine and was told in the letter that it has been refunded but it has'nt yet.
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Phooey
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 20:00
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QUOTE (SatNavSam @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 19:43) *
Has the money been refunded between then and now?



They said it had in the letter but nothing has been refunded back onto mt card yet!
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The Rookie
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 20:27
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It will be at some point.

As you are dual summonsed you can do a plea bargain. Do you have a summons or a single justice procedure notice as that affects how you get to the point of doing the bargain.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Phooey
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 22:10
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 20:27) *
It will be at some point.

As you are dual summonsed you can do a plea bargain. Do you have a summons or a single justice procedure notice as that affects how you get to the point of doing the bargain.



Single justice proceedure notice.
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Logician
post Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 23:01
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QUOTE (Phooey @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 22:10) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 20:27) *
It will be at some point. As you are dual summonsed you can do a plea bargain. Do you have a summons or a single justice procedure notice as that affects how you get to the point of doing the bargain.
Single justice proceedure notice.


There is a well established procedure. First plead not guilty to both offences, which will see the matter transferred to a regular court sitting and the date notified to you. Attend court on the date set, get to court early and ask one of the ushers (people scurrying about with clipboards and possibly gowns getting things organised) to point out to you the prosecutor who will be dealing with traffic matters. Briefly explain what happened and say to him/her that you will plead Guilty to the speeding if they will drop the s.172. We have never heard of prosecutors refusing to do this, they prefer to get a conviction for the underlying offence, and regard the two offences as effectively alternative offences. If you do not manage to speak to the prosecutor beforehand, you should still be able to do the deal in the courtroom. It is very difficult to do this in advance of the court hearing as you would have trouble speaking to the right person.






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Phooey
post Sun, 26 Mar 2017 - 08:21
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 23:01) *
QUOTE (Phooey @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 22:10) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 25 Mar 2017 - 20:27) *
It will be at some point. As you are dual summonsed you can do a plea bargain. Do you have a summons or a single justice procedure notice as that affects how you get to the point of doing the bargain.
Single justice proceedure notice.


There is a well established procedure. First plead not guilty to both offences, which will see the matter transferred to a regular court sitting and the date notified to you. Attend court on the date set, get to court early and ask one of the ushers (people scurrying about with clipboards and possibly gowns getting things organised) to point out to you the prosecutor who will be dealing with traffic matters. Briefly explain what happened and say to him/her that you will plead Guilty to the speeding if they will drop the s.172. We have never heard of prosecutors refusing to do this, they prefer to get a conviction for the underlying offence, and regard the two offences as effectively alternative offences. If you do not manage to speak to the prosecutor beforehand, you should still be able to do the deal in the courtroom. It is very difficult to do this in advance of the court hearing as you would have trouble speaking to the right person.






Thanks for the advice.
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