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Parking charges on the beach
popsaw191
post Sat, 6 Aug 2011 - 20:07
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Morfa Bychan beach in Wales (owned by Gwynedd Council) is charging £4 (up from £1 last year) to park cars on the beach. The beach is an area of public right of way, regardless of ownership so my question is, are these charges enforcable? the lack of signage at the payment hut or anywhere else leads me to believe they are merely asking for the money, hoping people will pay without fuss, yet are not able to legally demand or enforce payment. Am I correct?
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post Sat, 6 Aug 2011 - 20:07
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spanner345
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 14:22
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Are you parking between the high and low water marks. (when the tide is out obviously). If so the land may not be the councils. It may be crown land.


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Mortimer
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 14:37
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Err! Excuse me everyone, but...

He is not being charged to park, he is being charged for vehicular access to the beach. So it is more of a toll, than a parking charge isn't it?

This post has been edited by Mortimer: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 14:37


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hcandersen
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 14:51
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Enforcing what? I don't follow you.

As payment is on entry then no pay, no enter.

HCA
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popsaw191
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 15:46
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QUOTE (spanner345 @ Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 15:22) *
Are you parking between the high and low water marks. (when the tide is out obviously). If so the land may not be the councils. It may be crown land.


They charge wherever you park, above the watermark or between though most people park on the wet sand (between)

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 15:51) *
Enforcing what? I don't follow you.

As payment is on entry then no pay, no enter.

HCA


I am referring to legal enforcement such as punitive charges for non payment,overstay and the legal means by which to pursue such.
In a supermarket, any charges for overstay cannot be enforced by the courts since they come under contract law. Council 'regulated' car parking comes under statutory law and punitive charges are enforcable in civil court.
By enforcibility therefore I mean, can you be pursued in court for non payment, overstay and any associated fines.
At this point it seems unlikely.

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 15:51) *
Enforcing what? I don't follow you.

As payment is on entry then no pay, no enter.

HCA

You can just drive past the hut as there is no barrier. This is how you can enter without payment
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hcandersen
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 19:49
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AIUI, we don't condone or recommend breaking the law or trespassing on a third party's land.

Whether the owner/licensee of the land may take action against you civilly or report you to the police for possible prosecution under criminal law is an unknown.

If you feel impelled to put this to the test do let us know how you get on.


HCA
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popsaw191
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 20:02
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 20:49) *
AIUI, we don't condone or recommend breaking the law or trespassing on a third party's land.

Whether the owner/licensee of the land may take action against you civilly or report you to the police for possible prosecution under criminal law is an unknown.

If you feel impelled to put this to the test do let us know how you get on.


HCA


There would be no criminal offence to answer for. Also, since the owner is bound by law to allow public access, there would be no trespass, which in any case is only a tort, thereforit is not a case of condoning any illegality or unlaffulness.
I am not particuilarly interested in revisiting that beach but I AM curious as to the enforcibility issue which would apply to many other beaches I am sure.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 20:16
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If they only have to allow public access by foot then access by vehicle otherwise than as permitted (i.e. on payment) could well be an offence.


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mickR
post Thu, 18 Aug 2011 - 20:30
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blimey i know this is a fight back forum BUT it would be easier to pay the four quid! icon_hang.gif
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popsaw191
post Mon, 22 Aug 2011 - 11:26
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Here is the reply received today 23/8/11

Dear Mr Dodd,

Thank you for your e-mail.

I will be forwarding the enquiry to my colleagues in the Legal unit requesting further confirmation on our position.

I will contact you further as soon as I have discussed the matter further with colleagues.

In the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

Yours sincerely,

[b][i]Barry Davies[/i][/b]

Barry Davies
Swyddog Morwrol a Pharciau Gwledig
Maritime and Country Parks Officer
01758 704066
07831 212264
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