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Car Dealership Asking for more money following their error, Do we owe the money?
Umtwebby
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:11
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The dealership is a main dealership but I want to avoid them becoming aware of this thread if possible so I have excluded their details.

A car dealership has indicated that they charged my wife incorrectly for her motor vehicle. Initially, we were given a price for the car plus £1100 for additional extras. The order took approx 16 weeks to fulfill from the order to the provision of the car.

When we were due to collect the car we were asked for a payment in an email which we realised was wrong and spoke with Dealership. They then changed the price to the advertised price without the additional extras plus approx £100 (one of the upgrades was priced at £100). We queried this price again but were assured from the salesman, backed up by him consulting with his manager that this was the correct price. I believed with my wife that we had misinterpreted the original price and that the price including the extras must be the price we were now being quoted rather than the extras being an additional payment.

To confirm, I sent my son to the dealership and he was shown the figures as to why the car was the price we were quoted. We were provided a document which showed the price to pay and what we were liable for. This confirmed our thought process that the price we originally thought applied had been misinterpreted by us and that the current price reflected the true price either because of price changes or a simple error in understanding on our part at the outset and that some of the 'extras' were actually included in the price. The extra £100 was for the black alloys.

We considered that we had been provided an accurate offer to purchase the car for the disclosed amount.

On the morning of collection of the car (27 July 2018) we paid the full balance by BACS as requested firmly believing that we had bought the car for the price quoted to us and confirmed three times by contact with the dealership.

We have now been contacted by the dealership (14 August 2018) to state that they have made a mistake and we owe more than £1000. I want to disagree. We were offered the car at a price and we tried on three occasions to make sure that the price offered was correct. We were assured three times, including a reference to a dealership manager that the price was right, and that is the price we accepted and paid. We had to complete further paperwork in the dealership which was signed by both parties which confirms the purchase was completed.

The dealership want an additional payment of over £1000. What do others think about our position?
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post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:11
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DancingDad
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:21
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IMO your position is very strong.
You were given an offer and triple checked it, they may have made an error but you accepted in good faith and paid what they asked.
But what have you got in writing to support the offer ?
I assume a minimum of a receipt with prices and details on it ?
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southpaw82
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:22
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Depends what the contract was. Were their representations capable of altering the offer or is that excluded by the contract?


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Umtwebby
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:38
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:21) *
IMO your position is very strong.
You were given an offer and triple checked it, they may have made an error but you accepted in good faith and paid what they asked.
But what have you got in writing to support the offer ?
I assume a minimum of a receipt with prices and details on it ?


QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:22) *
IMO your position is very strong.
You were given an offer and triple checked it, they may have made an error but you accepted in good faith and paid what they asked.
But what have you got in writing to support the offer ?
I assume a minimum of a receipt with prices and details on it ?


We ordered the car and only signed documentation regarding the car at collection. AFAIK, the price we paid is on the documents we signed at the dealership on collection of the car (will have to check later). We have an email pertaining to the original price requested by the dealership which we queried by telephone. The confirmation of the price we paid was by the dealership on the telephone with my wife who I would indicate was resolute in her query about the price were being asked to pay, hence the referral of the matter to the Dealership Manager. A further representation was made in person by my son at the dealership.

When the car was ordered we were given what I would describe as ad-hoc papers containing details of prices but nothing specific in respect of our circumstances. There was no deposit paid and nothing signed at the order point.

This post has been edited by Umtwebby: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:39
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Slapdash
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:43
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What was the value of the car and how hard were your negotiations?

The points being:-

- Would a reasonable person think it was just a good deal or absurd.
- There may well still be margin in it for the dealer
- The negative social media that could occur as a result of their "error" may encourage them to let it go even if they think their position is strong.

If you are continuing to engage with them then ensure it is with the dealer principle.

Fwiw 2 years ago I bought my partner a mini. I had a very good price from a dealer 200 miles away. I asked local dealer to match it which after quite a lot of negotiation they did.

Before actually placing the order I asked for amendment to add some extras. They mispriced these and I didnt realise. They called me to let me know and after a bit of to and fro we agreed to split.
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Umtwebby
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:15
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:43) *
What was the value of the car and how hard were your negotiations?

The points being:-

- Would a reasonable person think it was just a good deal or absurd.
- There may well still be margin in it for the dealer
- The negative social media that could occur as a result of their "error" may encourage them to let it go even if they think their position is strong.

If you are continuing to engage with them then ensure it is with the dealer principle.

Fwiw 2 years ago I bought my partner a mini. I had a very good price from a dealer 200 miles away. I asked local dealer to match it which after quite a lot of negotiation they did.

Before actually placing the order I asked for amendment to add some extras. They mispriced these and I didnt realise. They called me to let me know and after a bit of to and fro we agreed to split.


The car cost circa £30,000 which is what was paid and the dealership are asking for just over £1000. We probably haven't been charged for the upgrades we ordered or the dealership (for some reason) lowered the price ultimately by an amount almost equivalent to the upgrades. The negotiations were relaxed. My wife does not really haggle.

Dealer principle? Do you mean dealer principal as in the head person? I assume this would be the person over the whole franchise/dealership which has many branches as the manager at the dealership was involved in the offer to us which we accepted.
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Jlc
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:16
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QUOTE (Umtwebby @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:38) *
...and nothing signed at the order point.

That is most unusual for a main dealer? I've always had an order to sign which confirms the exact spec and price.


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big_mac
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:40
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You could just pay it. You were obviously happy to buy at that price originally so you haven't exactly lost anything due to their mistake.

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The Rookie
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:50
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True, but it appears the contract was for £1000 less, so no reason to pay.


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Slapdash
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:02
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On a 30k price point the 1100 would usually be within the bounds of differing negotiations.

Please you went to great lengths to confirm that the reduced price was correct. I think most people would feel - irrespective of the actual eventual legal position - that the price paid at the point of delivery should be honoured.

By dealer principal I mean the guy responsible for the day to day aspects of the dealership. It is likely that the escalation was (at most) from a salesman to the new sales manager.

If, indeed, it was to the dealer principal then next port of call should probably be to the overall franchise manager for that marque at head office.

Essentially you said "is it right" "are you sure" "for real". Ok "here's the money". Then a limited time later they said "actually we were wrong".

Also the paperwork sounds a bit patchy, so it doesn't sound like you were exploting an obvious error. Quite the reverse.

Personally I would try and negotiate for a time further, perhaps offering a token settlement, perhaps explaining that they will be benefitting from the servicing work [even more so if it has a prepaid service pack because these are financed by manufacturer and actual work billed by the garage back to manufacturer].

If I couldn't agree I would await a court claim. Defend it as best I can and pay up of it didnt go my way.

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big_mac
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:34
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:50) *
True, but it appears the contract was for £1000 less, so no reason to pay.

You don't always need a reason to do the right thing.
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DancingDad
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:38
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Last time I had an argument with a dealer, over getting work done under a warrantee agreement that I had paid for but they had not taken out, I ended up going to the sales manager and asking very bluntly, why I should consider ever buying from them again.
If I had just paid 30K on a motor, I would be asking the question of the Managing Director/CEO/whoever is at the top.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:38
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The Rookie
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 13:08
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QUOTE (big_mac @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 13:34) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:50) *
True, but it appears the contract was for £1000 less, so no reason to pay.

You don't always need a reason to do the right thing.

You mean like a dealer who agreed the wrong price holding themselves to it?


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andy_foster
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 19:20
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As alluded to by our sinister friend, as a matter of law, once a contract has been entered into, re-negotiation without bringing fresh consideration has no effect, subject to certain limited exceptions which do not appear to be applicable here. Some contracts explicitly allow for variation of the price, although in consumer contracts at least that tends to be more for contracts for a continuous supply or service, rather than for a one-off purchase. Entering into a contract does not generally require signing a piece of paper.

IMHO it is impossible to determine with any certainty whether or not you legally owe the £1000 from the information provided so far, but it seems probable that you do.

However, it seems even more probable that the dealership wouldn't be stupid enough to try to sue a customer to resolve what is very clearly their own mistake in such circumstances.

IMHO (again) the pertinent question seems to be what value you put in having a good ongoing relationship with this dealer.


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whitewing
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 21:55
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What's the amount on your invoice - what you paid or what they claim?
If the former it's hard to see them having any claim.

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Adders1974
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 10:36
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This sounds very similar to an issue I had with a new car last year. After collection and completion of payment I received a letter asking for another £1600. Apparently an issue with the configurator the dealers use to order the car had meant I had underpaid on options. They argued the configurator price being wrong meant the negotiated price I settled and paid against was for a different car and so they could alter the contractor terms and therefore price. Strange logic I thought, but logic none the less. I simply supplied my paperwork in a meeting with the dealerships manager from beginning to end, pointed out it was clearly their error and if they insist they are adjusting the price because I received a different car to that that I ordered than rather than pay more I would simply return the car and get a refund. He agreed to drop it.
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Tartarus
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 10:46
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Similar to when I had the catalytic convertor replaced on my current car due to catastrophic failure. It was a hard pill to swallow for a vehicle that had only done 41k at that point, but I negotiated with the dealership to have the parts supplied at cost (no markup) and their cheapest labour rate because they accepted that it should have lasted double that distance or more, and I'd been a regular and reliable customer to that point. Wasn't until after I'd paid, had the work done, collected the vehicle and they came to the follow up comms to ask how their service had been, that it transpired they'd only charged me for one of the two parts they'd installed. The original quote and final invoice affirmed someone at the dealership had cocked up to the tune of around £600. Put their hands up and never asked me for the rest.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 11:19
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For many years I worked in a company sorting contract wrangles out.
Often they were because what the salesman thought they had sold wasn't what the customer thought they had bought.
Devil is in the details, to me, if the details show spec, options and price, this sort of error is the fault of the salesman and cannot be renegotiated after the sale.
Unfortunately, I often found that the details were not clear so there had to be some horse trading.

But at the moment, it is unclear what details are in writing or can be verified.
But my instinct is still to tell them to take a hike.
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Umtwebby
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 13:31
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After a search by the wife, we cannot find any paperwork, signed or otherwise, at the point of order. She does not recollect signing anything when the car was ordered but just having a conversation with the salesman regarding the specification she wanted which he input into a computer. This included three upgrades totalling £1130. The car took either 12 or 16 weeks to build and deliver. I know it was a long time and, because we have no order paperwork, I cannot be sure of the time frame.

I suspect that if there was a signed order document then this would have been declared to us by now with some form of argument that 'this is what you agreed and the price you were willing to pay'. All we have had is a call from the dealer saying that there has been a mistake and we need to pay more money, a value just less than £1130. We have not had any paperwork from them which indicates that we have paid the wrong price.

In the week prior to this transaction, we queried the price on three occasions. I remember the week well because we thought that the car we were going to receive was not the spec we ordered. The first query by telephone to them was as a consequence of an email from the dealership telling us what we had to pay and our challenge resulted in the price being raised. The second was a further query by the wife because she was concerned about the specification of the car resulting in a telephone call by the dealer who 'insisted' that the price was right and he had run the figures by his manager to confirm this. Even then, we invoked a third price query when we had our son go into the dealership and the salesman showed him the 'proof' that the price we were being asked to pay was correct. My son satisfied us that the car we ordered was the car that was going to be delivered.

When the car was ordered, we believed at that point that the price was about £1000 more than what we paid. However, the subsequent conversation and dealings with the dealership meant that we later believed that the price as we had understood originally had been misinterpreted by us and included most of the 'extras' ordered rather than as an additional cost.

The wife signed a document when we collected the car which reflected the price we paid for the car with the additional spec we wanted. Possibly, this is when any contract came into force which will have a legal effect.

We have now had a contact by email from the Main Dealership Head of Business who is going to make some enquiries and get back to us. It will be interesting to see what he uncovers, whether the dealership is honest about their dealings with the wife and his outcome.

It may be that we resort to court to clarify the matter but the dealership will have to instigate this. My wife is a business director and a court venue does not hold any fears for her so any threat of legal action should it arise won't work on her.

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The Rookie
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 11:46) *
they accepted that it should have lasted double that distance or more

Sales of goods act, or consumer rights act says they should have repaired it for free then..... no wonder they were happy to help!


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