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Valid Parking PERMIT displayed but PCN issued in pay and display bay, Valid Parking PERMIT displayed but PCN issued in pay and display bay
JNKWWA
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 12:13
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Hi, Im a new member who joined today biggrin.gif I came across the Pepipoo after a google search when I tried to find out how to appeal my NTO;

My story
The latest news from Bristol city council : NTO issued 29/05/2019 Code 11 - Parked without payment of the parking charge.
Original PCN was issued 3/01/2019 for Code 11 - Parked without payment of the parking charge.

What Happened on the day;

I have parked in the same parking bay using Visitor arking permits for numerous times while visiting a relative.
On this day also believing the parking bay was mixed use for permits and tickets, I had a Valid visitor parking permit displayed on dashboard (Parking officer had photographs of this valid permit when I logged on to online) and I unknowingly and due to the habit of parking there before parked on this parking bay as I used to do in the past. the nearest parking machine on the same side of the road says its mixed use and apparently applies to the next parking bay! which is mixed use. Parking officer has photographed the Parking machine opposite of the road where there is a separate pay and display parking bay.


I am not sure whether the Council have changed the mix use of this bay to a pay and display recently? and I asked that question in my appeal but no reply was given in their reply! How can I find this council parking Map attached.
I appealed the PCN on the 5/01/2019 thinking they will waive it off because they have changed the parking rules for this parking bay recently! I was wrong ohmy.gif and they have emailed me the Appeal reply on the 01/05/2019 as per below to my email, which I didn't see it until I received a NTO dated 29/05/2019 (Scan copies attached)


Appeal reply email received on the 01/05/2019

DATE ISSUED : 03/01/2019
LOCATION OF CONTRAVENTION : DOVE STREET SOUTH (KINGSDOWN)

I refer to the challenge made by you in connection with the issue of the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

Taking into account your reasons and having reviewed the facts surrounding this contravention I am of the opinion the notice was issued correctly as your vehicle was observed parked without payment of the parking charge. It is a requirement of the regulations governing this parking facility that a valid pay and display ticket is purchased and displayed clearly or that the vehicle is registered as paid for parking on the RingGo parking facility

I note your comments made, however a permit is not valid within a pay and display only bay.

In view of the above I can see no justification to withdraw this PCN.

You now have a number of options open to you:

• To pay the PCN. If payment is received within 14 days from the date of receipt of this letter, the discounted payment of £25 will still be accepted. Please refer to the “How to Pay” information at the end of this letter.

• Await the issue of a Notice to Owner (NTO) to the registered keeper of the vehicle, on which the PCN was served. At this point you will be offered the choice of either to pay the outstanding PCN (£50) or to make a formal representation (appeal) against its issue. Although a formal representation (appeal) can only be made on one of the listed statutory grounds, the Council is able to consider any valid reason in mitigation. If, after this formal representation has been assessed and the resulting decision is still to uphold the PCN, you retain the right to appeal this decision to an independent Adjudicator. Full detail on what to do will be enclosed with the Notice to Owner. Further information on the process can be found at www.patrol-uk.info

Council info and map of permit and pay and display parking

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/parking/kingsdown

Please advice how I should proceed? and on which ground should I appeal?

Many thanks in advance.








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post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 12:13
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JNKWWA
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 17:23
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 15:12) *
You are will have been given a date by which you must submit your evidence, what is it?

I will help you but my time is limited so you need to help me to do so. First you must get up to speed with posting documents and photos there is nothing I can do without seeing them

Then I want to see The notice to owner, your representation against that notice, All the council photos and the summery from the council evidence pack.

You need be proactive and not wait for things to happen or time could run away from you



Hi PASTMYBEST

Can you please guide me how to get this done please?

I received the email on the 12/09/2019 and have 7 days from today. so by the 19/09/2019 I have to reply.

All documents you need are attached to my original post today.

Thank you for your help on this and really appreciate it!
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hcandersen
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 16:25
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From: Woking
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OP, you were there, we weren't.

So summarise for us the issues regarding the contravention.

Were you parked in a P&D only bay, yes or no? (Why is not the issue, just whether you were or not)
Did you display a P&D ticket which was valid at 9.40?
What is the relevance of two photos in evidence, one showing a permit, the other a P&D which expired at 9.37?
Which if any of the photos shows the sign in your parking place?
What is the relevance of the two photos of P&D machines, possibly the same machine, and where was it located?

Now as regards the NOR, there are several glaring errors:
1. It repeatedly misstates the period for payment and registering an appeal. Why? Because it defines service(which is the key base date for payments and appeals) explicitly by stating 'second day after the day of posting(as shown above)'. Unfortunately for the authority the day of service is defined in the regs as 'the second working day after the day of posting', not second day but second working day. And the day of posting was Thurs 1 August which gives a date of service of 5th which is therefore day 1 of the 28-day periods and NOT Sat. 3 which it would be using the authority's method.
2. It further misstates your right to appeal which is 28 days or such longer period as the adjudicator may allow. By omitting this part the authority have purportedly removed the discretion of the adjudicator and misled you accordingly.
3. Oh, and the will/may issue!
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JNKWWA
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 11:04
Post #23


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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 17:25) *
OP, you were there, we weren't.

So summarise for us the issues regarding the contravention.

Were you parked in a P&D only bay, yes or no? (Why is not the issue, just whether you were or not)
Did you display a P&D ticket which was valid at 9.40?
What is the relevance of two photos in evidence, one showing a permit, the other a P&D which expired at 9.37?
Which if any of the photos shows the sign in your parking place?
What is the relevance of the two photos of P&D machines, possibly the same machine, and where was it located?

Now as regards the NOR, there are several glaring errors:
1. It repeatedly misstates the period for payment and registering an appeal. Why? Because it defines service(which is the key base date for payments and appeals) explicitly by stating 'second day after the day of posting(as shown above)'. Unfortunately for the authority the day of service is defined in the regs as 'the second working day after the day of posting', not second day but second working day. And the day of posting was Thurs 1 August which gives a date of service of 5th which is therefore day 1 of the 28-day periods and NOT Sat. 3 which it would be using the authority's method.
2. It further misstates your right to appeal which is 28 days or such longer period as the adjudicator may allow. By omitting this part the authority have purportedly removed the discretion of the adjudicator and misled you accordingly.
3. Oh, and the will/may issue!


Were you parked in a P&D only bay, yes or no?
YES

Did you display a P&D ticket which was valid at 9.40?
NO

What is the relevance of two photos in evidence, one showing a permit, the other a P&D which expired at 9.37?
IN THE PARKING OFFICER PHOTOS TAKEN PERMIT IS MY VALID RESIDENCE VISITOR PARKING PERMIT I DISPLAYED. P&D IS THE ONE PARKING OFFICER HAS PHOTOGRAPHED TO PROVE TIME OR HIS NUMBER, IM NOT SURE BUT ITS NOT ONE I DISPLAYED ( BOTH PHOTOS ARE IN pHOTOS.PDF ATTACHMENT)

Which if any of the photos shows the sign in your parking place?
THE ONE SHOWING HIGH ON A POST ABOVE THE PARKING BAY (PHOTOS ARE IN pHOTOS.PDF ATTACHMENT)

What is the relevance of the two photos of P&D machines, possibly the same machine, and where was it located?
THIS IS THE CONFUSING BIT
IST P&d MACHINE PHOTOS
PARKING OFFICER HAS PHOTOGRAPHED THE P&d MACHINE AT THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROADOR PARKING BAY AS THERE IS NO P&D MACHINE ON THE SAME SIDE AS PER THE ARROW SUGGESTS ON THE PARKING SIGN BY THE BAY I PARKED. HE ATTACHED TWO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SAME MACHINE NO 2366 FULL FRONTAL AND THE PARKING CONDITION OF THE MACHINE FRONT. THIS MACHINE IS NEXT TO A ANOTHER PARKING BAY OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROAD DOVE STREET SOUTH EXACTLY WHERE THE NEAREST T JUNCTION. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bristol+B...33;4d-2.5934493
PLEASE SEE THE ATTACHMENT PS DOC .PDF TO SEE THE MAP OF PARKING SCHEME SHOWING PARKING BAYS

2ND P&D MACHINE PICS
I TOOK AND ATTACHED TWO PICS OF THE P&D MACHINE WITH THE SAME MACHINE NO 2366 TO MY REPRESENTATION. THIS P&D MACHINE IS SITUATED MUCH CLOSER TO THE PARKING BAY I PARKED AND IS ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE ROAD/PARKING BAY. THIS IS SITUATED BY THE BAY NEXT PARKING BAY ALONG THE DOVE STREET SOUTH ROAD WHICH IS MIXED USE.
PLEASE NOTE THIS 2ND P&D MACHINE IS SITUATED TO THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ARROW SHOWN ON THE PARKING SIGN.
TWO PICS OF THIS SECOND MACHINE WERE IN MY REPRESENTATION REPLY AND THE ATTACHMENT IS _REP.PDF


Now as regards the NOR, there are several glaring errors:

1. It repeatedly misstates the period for payment and registering an appeal. Why? Because it defines service(which is the key base date for payments and appeals) explicitly by stating 'second day after the day of posting(as shown above)'. Unfortunately for the authority the day of service is defined in the regs as 'the second working day after the day of posting', not second day but second working day. And the day of posting was Thurs 1 August which gives a date of service of 5th which is therefore day 1 of the 28-day periods and NOT Sat. 3 which it would be using the authority's method.
2. It further misstates your right to appeal which is 28 days or such longer period as the adjudicator may allow. By omitting this part the authority have purportedly removed the discretion of the adjudicator and misled you accordingly.
3. Oh, and the will/may issue!


HOPE I ANSWERED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS AS PER ABOVE PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET THE REPLY DRAFTED.

PLEASE SEE BELOW EMAIL I RECEIVED FROM TPT ON THE 12/09/2019 AND DEADLINE IS TODAY! blink.gif icon_hang.gif

MANY THANKS!

Dear Jagath Weligama Arachchige,

The authority uploaded its evidence on your case. There are a couple of actions for you to take now.

1. Review the authority evidence

Please review the evidence. You have 7 days to add your own evidence and comments if you wish to do so.

2. Confirm how you wish your case to be decided by choosing ‘select decision options’

There are two ways for this decision to be made:
Option A: I would like the adjudicator to decide my case now: The appeal will be decided by the adjudicator without a telephone hearing. Select ‘request decision’.
Option B: I would like a telephone hearing: Tell us about your preferred times and select ‘submit hearing request’. We will then contact you to arrange a date and time for a telephone hearing.
Please note that if you do not make a request within 7 days of this email the decision will be made without a telephone hearing.

Can I see how my case is progressing online?
You can log into your account at any time to review the progress of your case:
https://foam.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/...69134/evidences

If the text above does not appear as a link, please copy and paste it into your web browser for viewing.

If you have any queries you can also call the Freephone number below.

Kind regards,

Traffic Penalty Tribunal
Freephone: 0800 160 1999*


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JNKWWA
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 11:14
Post #24


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PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL ATTACHMENTS ARE IN MY POST #18

I LOGGED ON TO TPT CASE ONLINE AND IT SAYS HAVE TWO OPTIONS
1.TO OPT FOR TELEPHONE HEARING
2 OR NOT

AND I HAVE NOT ADD ANY COMMENTS YET .

THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS AS AT NOW;

View the evidence below
You are able to add comments should you wish.
Select your decision option
If you do not select either option by 19/09/2019 your case will go to the adjudicator to decide.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 21:29
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I've been a bit out of touch.

This should suffice, it is complete and ready to go send the whole folder to the tribunal

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVu30KCfA...gfs2EU?e=FtVhKw


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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JNKWWA
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 06:18
Post #26


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Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,265



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 22:29) *
I've been a bit out of touch.

This should suffice, it is complete and ready to go send the whole folder to the tribunal

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVu30KCfA...gfs2EU?e=FtVhKw


Thank you for your help on this.

I have now uploaded all 4 documents. As soon as I hear back from the TPT I will update you on the decision.

Thank you again!
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JNKWWA
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:23
Post #27


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Joined: 12 Jun 2019
Member No.: 104,265



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 22:29) *
I've been a bit out of touch.

This should suffice, it is complete and ready to go send the whole folder to the tribunal

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVu30KCfA...gfs2EU?e=FtVhKw


biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Thank you for all the help I received!! I won the appeal!! biggrin.gif

PCN BS15505035
Mr Jagath Weligama Arachchige, you have won this appeal.
There is nothing to pay and the authority will cancel the penalty charge

The authority will cancel the Notice to Owner

This is because the alleged parking contravention did not occur.


Thank you again!! biggrin.gif

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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:33
Post #28


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Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (JNKWWA @ Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 15:23) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 22:29) *
I've been a bit out of touch.

This should suffice, it is complete and ready to go send the whole folder to the tribunal

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVu30KCfA...gfs2EU?e=FtVhKw


biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Thank you for all the help I received!! I won the appeal!! biggrin.gif

PCN BS15505035
Mr Jagath Weligama Arachchige, you have won this appeal.
There is nothing to pay and the authority will cancel the penalty charge

The authority will cancel the Notice to Owner

This is because the alleged parking contravention did not occur.


Thank you again!! biggrin.gif


brilliant, please post a copy of the decision it will help in future cases


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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