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Sleepy Joe's comments about Derek Chauvin
trubster
post Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 20:25
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Could you imagine the uproar if Boris Johnson said "x should be found guilty" while the jury was deliberating and coming to a verdict?

How on earth is it legal in the USA to blatantly try to sway a verdict? Then there's the democrats "He's guilty or there will be riots" mob!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-94...inneapolis.html

I'm not commenting either way as I've not followed the case at all, but wow! the scales of justice seem to be incredibly lopsided in the states.
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post Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 20:25
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DancingDad
post Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 11:45
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 11:37) *
........
Personally I think its time to put and end to it but only because anyone not wishing to partake is tgen castigated and labled "racist" for not conforming.


Plus 1
I have no particular objection to any symbol or gesture though I do have a major issue with some of the political aims that BLM promote.
However it is the label Racist being applied if anyone seems not to be fully onboard that really gets to me.
And not only the race issue, it happens with any and all types of discrimination.
This is not new though the WOKE culture makes it seem more and more prevalent.
If someone has an opposing view, they should not be cancelled or ignored simply because they do not conform.
Doing so stifles healthy debate and the chance of meaningful changes that could actually have a positive impact.

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rosturra
post Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 11:51
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 11:37) *
Personally I think its time to put and end to it but only because anyone not wishing to partake is tgen castigated and labled "racist" for not conforming.


So by the same argument:

Is it time to put an end to Poppy Day because anyone not wishing to partake is castigated for not conforming?
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stamfordman
post Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:13
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:45) *
If someone has an opposing view, they should not be cancelled or ignored simply because they do not conform.
Doing so stifles healthy debate and the chance of meaningful changes that could actually have a positive impact.



What exactly do you want to say?
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TMC Towcester
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 06:07
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QUOTE (rosturra @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:51) *
Is it time to put an end to Poppy Day because anyone not wishing to partake is castigated for not conforming?


Never happens - so, no!
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rosturra
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 10:37
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 07:07) *
QUOTE (rosturra @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:51) *
Is it time to put an end to Poppy Day because anyone not wishing to partake is castigated for not conforming?


Never happens - so, no!


Not sure if you were joking. But Jon Snow gets castigated every year for not wearing a [red] poppy!

Anyway, I have no dog in the Poppy fight. It was just an example to reposte MickR's 'take the knee' argument.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 11:19
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:45) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 11:37) *
........
Personally I think its time to put and end to it but only because anyone not wishing to partake is tgen castigated and labled "racist" for not conforming.


Plus 1
I have no particular objection to any symbol or gesture though I do have a major issue with some of the political aims that BLM promote.
However it is the label Racist being applied if anyone seems not to be fully onboard that really gets to me.
And not only the race issue, it happens with any and all types of discrimination.
This is not new though the WOKE culture makes it seem more and more prevalent.
If someone has an opposing view, they should not be cancelled or ignored simply because they do not conform.
Doing so stifles healthy debate and the chance of meaningful changes that could actually have a positive impact.

Have you actually ever been in a situation where you are expected to take the knee, or been castigated for doing so?

I can only imagine it's a vanishingly rare occurrence for most people. Do you get equally upset about virtue signalling Christians taking the knee in purely symbolic gesture?
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Spandex
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 13:49
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 07:07) *
QUOTE (rosturra @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:51) *
Is it time to put an end to Poppy Day because anyone not wishing to partake is castigated for not conforming?


Never happens - so, no!

I mean, about 30 seconds of googling with a single search term brought up these:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showb...r-wave-15368495
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/0...g-poppy-extreme
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/765...chester-united/
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/nor...n-40109801.html

And it's such a well known occurence that it's become a running joke - For example, the 'funny because it's true' Manufactured Culture War Outrage Calendar:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOjfJVNX0AA9em3...amp;name=medium

This post has been edited by Spandex: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 13:50
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Tibbs
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 21:54
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 07:07) *
QUOTE (rosturra @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 12:51) *
Is it time to put an end to Poppy Day because anyone not wishing to partake is castigated for not conforming?


Never happens - so, no!


Since the change of Rememberance Day from being about the sacrifice of a (mostly) conscript force in both WWI & WWII, to being about all wars, I've neither gone to a rememberance service nor worn a poppy, and even as an average Joe I've caught **** every year for not doing so. So yes, it does happen. A lot.
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Ahelpinggand
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 22:20
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People who don't want to participate etc fair enough, that their choice and I've never known any issues from that.

The ones who cop flack are the usual left wing loonies who like to burn flags etc etc who actively campaign against it.

2 very different things

In response in NML question I know a few police officers from Bristol who were indeed being threatened whilst on duty during the " protests " over the summer if they refused to " take a knee " so yes it does happen.

As minority it maybe however

This post has been edited by Ahelpinggand: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 22:22
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 23:41
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QUOTE (Ahelpinggand @ Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 23:20) *
In response in NML question I know a few police officers from Bristol who were indeed being threatened whilst on duty during the " protests " over the summer if they refused to " take a knee " so yes it does happen.

As minority it maybe however

At protests or mass gatherings there are always people who want to have a go at the police. I would imagine, like my Friday night shifts in A&E, you really don't care that someone is having a go at you because, like a petulant child, they are only kicking off because you an authority figure.

It doesn't mean there is any widespread societal pressure.
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Ahelpinggand
post Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 06:02
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Agreed.

The problem was they were being pressured by their own superiors to do so as well!

My comment was not meant to suggest it's widespread in the UK

In the US however some of the scenes are shocking.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 06:15
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My original comment on taking the knee was that its purpose had been eroded by poor George Floyd's murder via a dropped knee.

That taking the knee message is now redundant IMO and has outlived its usefulness to the highly important BLM campaign. Wilfried Saha was right to reject the gesture.


What happens when the real racists and neo-nazis take the knee in support of Chauvin and call themselves Chauvinists?


If a message becomes mixed and subject to misinterpretation, as in the extreme example I've postulated, it is of no use.


"Chauvinism is the irrational belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people, who are seen as strong and virtuous, while others are considered weak, unworthy or inferior."

Mick
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andy_foster
post Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 08:58
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 07:15) *
"Chauvinism is the irrational belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people, who are seen as strong and virtuous, while others are considered weak, unworthy or inferior."


As opposed to BLM?


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 09:56
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Not particularly--could be opposed to disabled people or any disadvantaged group.


That definition, from Wikipedia, seems to me to cover racism although others would say it defines patriotism, albeit in its crassest form.

Mick
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stamfordman
post Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 11:05
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 07:15) *
My original comment on taking the knee was that its purpose had been eroded by poor George Floyd's murder via a dropped knee.


That's a coincidence and no one is going to confuse the two.
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Tibbs
post Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 19:29
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QUOTE (Ahelpinggand @ Mon, 26 Apr 2021 - 23:20) *
People who don't want to participate etc fair enough, that their choice and I've never known any issues from that.

The ones who cop flack are the usual left wing loonies who like to burn flags etc etc who actively campaign against it.

2 very different things

In response in NML question I know a few police officers from Bristol who were indeed being threatened whilst on duty during the " protests " over the summer if they refused to " take a knee " so yes it does happen.

As minority it maybe however


Again, that's not true. I just don't wear a poppy, I make no comment or fuss and I get flack. Just becasue you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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TMC Towcester
post Wed, 28 Apr 2021 - 07:27
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QUOTE (Tibbs @ Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 20:29) *
Again, that's not true. I just don't wear a poppy, I make no comment or fuss and I get flack. Just becasue you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


Much may depend on the company you keep and possibly where you live...................
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mickR
post Wed, 28 Apr 2021 - 18:25
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 12:05) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 27 Apr 2021 - 07:15) *
My original comment on taking the knee was that its purpose had been eroded by poor George Floyd's murder via a dropped knee.


That's a coincidence and no one is going to confuse the two.


Yes they will and do, many people had never heard of "taking the knee" untill the Floyd protests.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 28 Apr 2021 - 20:05
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 28 Apr 2021 - 19:25) *
Yes they will and do, many people had never heard of "taking the knee" untill the Floyd protests.


Don't be daft. Find someone who thinks it was about killing someone.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 - 20:08
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