CU80 Conditional Offer arrived after 14 days |
CU80 Conditional Offer arrived after 14 days |
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 04:08
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 30 Jan 2023 Member No.: 119,004 |
Hi. I'm new to the forum.
I was stopped by police on 30/11/2022 for allegedly driver not being in position to have proper control. There is no evidence of me using any mobile phones other than from the policeman. I received a CONDITIONAL OFFER OF FIXED PENALTY on 26/01/2023. Is this an NIP? Is it valid? What shall I do? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks. |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 04:08
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 06:35
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,074 Joined: 17 Nov 2015 Member No.: 80,686 |
No NIP needed as you were cautioned at the time.
It's an offer to 'dispose' of the offence for a given amount - you can accept it or decline it, go to court and offer a defence. Whilst Plod can be 'mistaken' they seldom invent charges are there's many folk using devices every day for them to catch. The police officer's testimony is evidence - but s/he's claiming you weren't in proper control which need not be using the phone (a different offence). What actually happened? It seems unlikely he/she/they pulled you over and proceded for no reason at all........... |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 06:36
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,423 Joined: 15 Apr 2009 From: Winnersh, UK Member No.: 27,840 |
You received a verbal NIP at the roadside when you were stopped i.e. you were warned that you would be prosecuted. Therefore no postal NIP is required
What you have received is not a NIP, but the offer to dispose of the matter without court by accepting the conditions mentioned in the offer i.e. pay the fine, send of the license for endorsement etc etc. You have not been charged with a mobile phone office, but the more generic office of not being in a position to have proper control. The fixed penalty for a mobile phone offence is £200 and 6 points. Do you have an offer for 3 points and £100? If so, then I would take it; if you decided not to, then the matter would proceed to court where the evidence given by the police officer (i.e. his recollection, supported by contemporaneous notes) would almost certainly convince a bench of magistrates of your guilt. Before the days of ubiquitous video devices, people were convicted of offences based upon police testimony. |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 06:56
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
I imagine you were warned at the time of the possibility of prosecution.
Some background to the reasons for the stop may help. There may well be no evidence other than the policemans. Your only real options are: - to accept the COFP (is the offer 6 points and £200 or something different) - opt for court and plead guilty. Bigger fine and modest costs - opt for court and plead not guilty. Even bigger fine and bigger costs. You will need to convince the court the officer is mistaken. If he isn't (ie you were using the phone) then purjuring your self under examination is potentially serious. If you were using the phone but not holding it then you may have a defence (eg it was on the seat). You appear to be charged with a control offence rather than the specific phone offence. If you have held a full licence for less than 2 years it will be revoked with 6 points. This post has been edited by Slapdash: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 07:02 |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 08:48
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
To clarify, the legislation (Section1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988) requires you are warned at the time of the offence of the possibility of prosecution OR a Notice is sent to the registered keeper or driver. It seems likely you were warned at the time (often called a 'verbal NIP' colloquially), so no this is not a NIP.
What is the offence stated on the conditional offer (COFP)? As noted its just an offer, you can accept (comply with the requirements by paying and sending in your licence), decline or ignore (you don't have to reply although many forces paperwork suggests you must) in which case you'll get your chance to defend the allegation in court, without a viable defence it is rare to suggest anyone take the matter to court as it will almost always end up worse off for you. So perhaps tell us more about what happened for the officer to stop you and we can suggest whether you have a defence, as you'll almost certainly have to be your own witness you may as well tell us everything truthfully as you would have to in court. Just claiming they have no evidence is not usually a winning strategy. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 09:19
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
No NIP needed as you were cautioned at the time. You received a verbal NIP at the roadside when you were stopped i.e. you were warned that you would be prosecuted. Therefore no postal NIP is required I imagine you were warned at the time of the possibility of prosecution. To clarify, the legislation (Section1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988) requires you are warned at the time of the offence of the possibility of prosecution OR a Notice is sent to the registered keeper or driver. It seems likely you were warned at the time (often called a 'verbal NIP' colloquially), so no this is not a NIP. Except… no NIP is needed for the “not in control” or mobile phone offence. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 09:39
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 30 Jan 2023 Member No.: 119,004 |
What happened is that I was entering the motorway on a slip road. A police car speeds past me whilst I was holding a mobile phone in my hand. They stopped me, and I told them that the phone came off the phone holder, and I picked it up, and held it whilst I was putting it back onto the phone holder, but I wasn't using it.
I have dash cam footage. The vehicle was driving straight with no swerving or evidence of being out of control. I received a conditional offer of £100 and 3 points. I currently have 0 points on my licence, and have never had any points in 20 years of driving. |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 09:45
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
RTA 1988 41D gives the legal definition as '...as to not driving a motor vehicle in a position which does not give proper control or a full view of the road and traffic ahead'.
It could be used for a number of allegations such as eating/drinking at the wheel, holding a mobile other than making calls etc. The idea being that both hands should be on the wheel to safely perform any necessary manoeuvres and your view of the road is not impaired. (You don't have to be swerving etc.) As above, you either accept the CoFP or contest the matter at trial at court. This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 09:46 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 10:04
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,074 Joined: 17 Nov 2015 Member No.: 80,686 |
What happened is that I was entering the motorway on a slip road. A police car speeds past me whilst I was holding a mobile phone in my hand. They stopped me, and I told them that the phone came off the phone holder, and I picked it up, and held it whilst I was putting it back onto the phone holder, but I wasn't using it. I have dash cam footage. The vehicle was driving straight with no swerving or evidence of being out of control. I received a conditional offer of £100 and 3 points. I currently have 0 points on my licence, and have never had any points in 20 years of driving. It may be then that you leant over/across/down to pick it up and thus took your eyes off the road - but why would returning it to the holder take any more than a nano-second so your movement would have been immediate and obvious. Regardless, you could have left it where it was particularly as you were presumably accelerating? Take the FPN methinks.......... |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 10:55
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I received a conditional offer of £100 and 3 points. I currently have 0 points on my licence, and have never had any points in 20 years of driving. As has been said, the evidence of a police officer that he observed you apparently committing an offence is good evidence and likely to be accepted by a court. You would be well advised to accept this offer as the best way to dispose of this matter. -------------------- |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 19:40
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
Entering a motorway needs care and a lot of attention all around you for obvious reasons. Maybe that's what they wanted to bring to your attention? that nono-second could have meant you not seeing the car or lorry alongside you in lane 1 on the main carriageway.
This post has been edited by roythebus: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 19:41 |
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Mon, 30 Jan 2023 - 23:38
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 30 Jan 2023 Member No.: 119,004 |
In short, accept the offer because the Magistrates will just rubber stamp whatever the police say.
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Tue, 31 Jan 2023 - 01:21
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 395 Joined: 17 May 2021 Member No.: 112,702 |
On the face of it the police, by your own admission, saw you driving with a mobile in your hand. That is pretty persuasive evidence for the CU80 offence, actual using the mobile has no bearing on this offence. It's not like you could give evidence in court that you weren't holding it, that would be a clear perjury.
So by all means take it to court, but it's difficult to see what your defence would be. |
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