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PCN - Parking Contravention 46 (TFL), Stooped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Can I use template for that PCN?
chrisSM
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 08:53
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Hello.
Can I use for my PCN ( link below):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BpzvCgicZdhxtkBo7

That template?:

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability on the basis that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case. The alleged contravention is "Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway)", but this is not a civil contravention because there is no corresponding offence under paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Management Act 2004. It follows that the only penalty that may be demanded is nil, and the PCN must be cancelled.

Furthermore service of a postal PCN in these circumstances is unlawful. Regulation 11 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 only permits service of a postal PCN on a red route where the road is marked in accordance with either diagram 1018.2 at item 11 or diagram 1017.1 at item 12 in Part 4 of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs Regulations, the section of road where my vehicle was filmed is not marked with either of these and in such circumstances, the power to serve a postal PCN does not arise. It follows that service of a postal PCN in this case amounts to a procedural impropriety and the penalty must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Thank you
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post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 08:53
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Incandescent
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 09:01
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Carry on, but do be aware you'll probably have to take them to London Tribunals. London councils and also TfL are in some disarray over this at the moment, and denial is always the first reaction of public bodies when presented with irrefutable evidence that they are acting ultra vires
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cp8759
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 14:18
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Where you stopped in a bay or on a single or double red line? Can't tell for sure form the PCN photo.

If in a bay, use the whole draft. If on a red line, delete the second paragraph.


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chrisSM
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 15:29
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 14:18) *
Where you stopped in a bay or on a single or double red line? Can't tell for sure form the PCN photo.

If in a bay, use the whole draft. If on a red line, delete the second paragraph.


Hello cp8759
Loading bay and it was around 8am, we parked for loading but left after 15 minutes approx and back around 9:30am. We had also windscreen ticket but they make typo on reg number so it's 1 letter wrong, it's V but should be Y.
Please see picture of parked van and sign below
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gmy8C7z9wxBvKkVa8

This post has been edited by chrisSM: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 15:30
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John U.K.
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 15:35
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QUOTE
We had also windscreen ticket but they make typo on reg number so it's 1 letter wrong, it's V but should be Y.


So you have had a windscreen PCN and a postal PCN for the same alleged offence?

P.S. Cannot access your photos without signing in sad.gif
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chrisSM
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 16:17
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 15:35) *
QUOTE
We had also windscreen ticket but they make typo on reg number so it's 1 letter wrong, it's V but should be Y.


So you have had a windscreen PCN and a postal PCN for the same alleged offence?

P.S. Cannot access your photos without signing in sad.gif



Yes for the same reason but as I said windscreen ticket have wrong letter and there is no details what kind of vehicle it is.
Please find links to the photos below
https://ibb.co/J2rNS42
https://ibb.co/bPprFB2
https://ibb.co/wK7mkzF
https://ibb.co/s9nYdKT
https://ibb.co/34L3Q05

This post has been edited by chrisSM: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 16:28
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Rob232
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 16:39
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Hi Chris. HV17HDF is a BMW 320. If no response to the PCN is received, the owner will get a Notice in the post. If you would rather the owner, not TfL, gets to keep the fine money, you need to respond saying they should cancel due to wrong registration mark on the PCN. You could give the postal PCN reference number as proof you were there earlier.


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Please read the sticky here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1755543 before posting a new case, or possibly after you posted it so that you can edit it. In any event, please read it.
Thanks
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Feb 2023 - 18:31) *
Never, ever go for a postal decision.

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John U.K.
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 16:53
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I know how to deal with a windscreen PCN with wrong reg.mark.
I know how to deal with two PCNs issued to the same vehicle reg mark for the same alleged contravention.

But here it appears the postal(right reg) PCN contravention timed at 08:06 and paper PCN(wrong reg) timed at 09:14.

Is the 'wrong' reg mark in use on a vehicle? (It is- grey BMW.)

Normally we would advise returning a copy of the paper PCN to the Council anonymously saying found on my vehicle but not my vehicle, to save the BMW owner a lot of hassle, but you need to wait for the advice of those more expert than me.

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 16:56
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chrisSM
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 17:50
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 16:53) *
I know how to deal with a windscreen PCN with wrong reg.mark.
I know how to deal with two PCNs issued to the same vehicle reg mark for the same alleged contravention.

But here it appears the postal(right reg) PCN contravention timed at 08:06 and paper PCN(wrong reg) timed at 09:14.

Is the 'wrong' reg mark in use on a vehicle? (It is- grey BMW.)

Normally we would advise returning a copy of the paper PCN to the Council anonymously saying found on my vehicle but not my vehicle, to save the BMW owner a lot of hassle, but you need to wait for the advice of those more expert than me.


As I said we left after 8:10-8:15 am and back after 9pm.
We do removals so we park longer than typical car but this was small job so we have done it quickly.
Customer by mistake sent us delivery address instead collection address so that was the reason we have been there 2 times.

This post has been edited by chrisSM: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 17:53
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cp8759
post Wed, 16 Nov 2022 - 23:08
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Back to this PCN, yes just use the draft you've already identified in post 1 and let us know when you get the Notice of Rejection please.


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chrisSM
post Wed, 7 Dec 2022 - 19:26
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Hello.
So I received 2 letters to my address.
I'm the owner/director of this company and this van is registered for my company name:
https://ibb.co/FgQVFz0
https://ibb.co/sWQsRJm

So I need to attach there written authority? If yes do you have any sample?
Thank you
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Dec 2022 - 10:30
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Had this sort of nonsense from TFL before and there's no reason why we should put up with it, write back:
Dear Transport for London,

I am the owner and director of Company Name Limited and I have made a representations in my capacity as such, I therefore require you to consider my representations. I would add that anyone sending the two letters dated 1 December 2022 which I have received, which are both addressed to my own company, could only have been sent to the same company at the same address by someone who is slightly unhinged, and this conduct on your part is therefore Wednesbury unreasonable.

If you carry on in this vain, in due course a witness statement will be made with the Traffic Enforcement Centre and I will ultimately seek costs against TFL for conducting itself in a wholly unreasonable manner.

Yours faithfully,

Krzysztof Burger,
For and on behalf of Company Name Limited
This response is very specifically crafted to get a specific outcome so please do not change it in any way, just add the correct company name and the PCN number / VRM.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 - 10:31


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chrisSM
post Thu, 8 Dec 2022 - 16:46
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Trying to reply but unfortunately something went wrong, I tried a few times and it's the same error (screenshot attached):
https://ibb.co/RynCZHs
https://ibb.co/hBbKwNY
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Schofeldt
post Thu, 8 Dec 2022 - 18:53
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Dec 2022 - 10:30) *
Had this sort of nonsense from TFL before and there's no reason why we should put up with it, write back:
Dear Transport for London,

I am the owner and director of Company Name Limited and I have made a representations in my capacity as such, I therefore require you to consider my representations. I would add that anyone sending the two letters dated 1 December 2022 which I have received, which are both addressed to my own company, could only have been sent to the same company at the same address by someone who is slightly unhinged, and this conduct on your part is therefore Wednesbury unreasonable.

If you carry on in this vain, in due course a witness statement will be made with the Traffic Enforcement Centre and I will ultimately seek costs against TFL for conducting itself in a wholly unreasonable manner.

Yours faithfully,

Krzysztof Burger,
For and on behalf of Company Name Limited
This response is very specifically crafted to get a specific outcome so please do not change it in any way, just add the correct company name and the PCN number / VRM.

Well burger me! Outrageous.


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People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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chrisSM
post Tue, 3 Jan 2023 - 21:33
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Hello.
Happy New year everyone.
I found a respond email in the spam box today, was sent on the 23/12/2022.
I made a screenshots but I can send genuine pdf file if required.
Links below:
https://ibb.co/Kh7dJV2
https://ibb.co/HVvXDZk

Thank you
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cp8759
post Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 00:47
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Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?


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chrisSM
post Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 14:40
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Hello CP8759.
Yes please, I will be grateful.
Please let me know what I have to do.

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cp8759
post Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 18:21
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I'll send you a PM.


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cp8759
post Sun, 19 Feb 2023 - 11:43
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DNC'ed.


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Schofeldt
post Sun, 19 Feb 2023 - 11:48
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I wonder why. rolleyes.gif


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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