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Dobbing in a drink driver
notmeatloaf
post Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 22:43
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I was wondering what people's thoughts were about dobbing in drink drivers?

I was behind a VW tonight who was either blind drunk or incredibly stupid. Struggling to stay in lane, erratic speed, at one roundabout he totally misjudged the exit and headed off at a totally different angle to the road before doing an emergency stop across the oncoming lane.

In general I'm not a fan of dobbing people in especially driving through the countryside where there are few pedestrians or cyclists. However, it did get to the stage where I considered calling 999 because the driving was atrocious.

I have done it once before but where we were heading into a busy town on a Friday night. I figured drunk people on streets plus drunk driver could end badly. It was fairly impressive, the 999 operator asked me to tell them the route and suddenly three police cars came from different directions and surrounded the car. I asked them if they needed me to stay but they declined, I suppose they had all the evidence they needed anyway.

So... at what stage is someone's driving so bad you need to call the cops?


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post Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 22:43
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 13:43
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Since my cycle accident I bought a helmet cam. It records in HD, with a time stamp.

You can not only see them texting, you can see what application they are using. Only thing is in slow moving traffic you will pass multiple drivers texting, using the internet, etc.


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rosturra
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 13:52
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Yes "zero tolerance" if the perp is obviously over the limit; but its not always obvious.

I was at a country pub/ restaurant with my wife last year.
We were seated next to an old Golf Bore type character, and his wife.

He definitely had an aperitif at bar, and wasn't hesitant with the bottle of wine. at table.

I raised my eyebrows to wife, and looked out to see if he ordered a brandy afterwards.

He didn't and we left the pub at the same time. He went for the driver's seat... and I had the dilemma.

I felt I couldn't say anything. As I could be not be certain. That Gin and tonic could have been a Perrier.
And he could have been carefully monitoring his wine consumption.

I was troubled enough to take his reg. and to ask my wife/driver to follow him for a mile or so.

He didn't drive erratically or anything, so we left him to it and made our way home.

Do I think he was over the limit? Well yes. Probably.
Was I confident of that as a fact ? No.










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glasgow_bhoy
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 17:43
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I've done it when someone was swerving between the hard shoulder and lane 3 of the motorway in a Sprinter van. I couldn't get past and his speed was anything between 40 and 70. Took 10 minutes for an unmarked BMW to come up behind me and stop him. I came off at the next junction and he was in handcuffs, so I'm guessing they had him for more than drink driving.

I'm not saying I'm a saint- I'm certain I've been over the limit the following morning without realising it, but on a night out if I have the car I genuinely don't mind being stopped and breathalised, provided the attitude of the police is ok (75% of the time it is).
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666
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 17:56
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QUOTE (rosturra @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 14:52) *
Yes "zero tolerance" if the perp is obviously over the limit; but its not always obvious.

I was at a country pub/ restaurant with my wife last year.
We were seated next to an old Golf Bore type character, and his wife.

He definitely had an aperitif at bar, and wasn't hesitant with the bottle of wine. at table.

I raised my eyebrows to wife, and looked out to see if he ordered a brandy afterwards.

He didn't and we left the pub at the same time. He went for the driver's seat... and I had the dilemma.

I felt I couldn't say anything. As I could be not be certain. That Gin and tonic could have been a Perrier.
And he could have been carefully monitoring his wine consumption.

I was troubled enough to take his reg. and to ask my wife/driver to follow him for a mile or so.

He didn't drive erratically or anything, so we left him to it and made our way home.

Do I think he was over the limit? Well yes. Probably.
Was I confident of that as a fact ? No.

No need for any agonising, no dilemma. Whether or not he was over the limit would not depend on your evidence, but would be determined objectively.
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The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 06:45
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 14:43) *
You can not only see them texting, you can see what application they are using. Only thing is in slow moving traffic you will pass multiple drivers texting, using the internet, etc.

Doesn't really matter if they're texting, WhatsApping or whatever - it's all "use" of the phone.

I've seen YouTube videos of Australian cops with headcams on motorcycles filtering down lanes of traffic stopped at lights, looking for phone use, and ticketing offenders. Need some of that here.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 06:47
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andy_foster
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 09:33
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 07:45) *
I've seen YouTube videos of Australian cops with headcams on motorcycles filtering down lanes of traffic stopped at lights, looking for phone use, and ticketing offenders. Need some of that here.


Yes, because using a phone while stopped at the lights is really dangerous. Won't somebody please think of the children!


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Charlie1010
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 10:46
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‘Yes, because using a phone while stopped at the lights is really dangerous. Won't somebody please think of the children!’

Yeah update your Facebook post and upload a funny video of a cat as that’s more important than being in proper control of your vehicle.

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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 10:49
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It's all very well using a phone whilst stopped but what I tend to see is that when the lights go green people try to finish and send their message whilst setting off. I myself have had some nasty overtakes from people still on their phone who misjudge and think they have space to overtake before reaching the far side signal.

Much more dangerous of course is that they miss someone still crossing - human psychology is that if you are distracted your mind will fill in the gaps in your observations depending on what is usually there.

The risk may be low but then you could say that about almost any driving offence. The reason why the punishments are harsh is because the consequences are potentially huge. 35 people killed last year by a driver on their phone.


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Charlie1010
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 10:54
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Yesterday driving into town the guy in front was very slow to move off from the lights at least half a dozen times.
He kept looking down at his lap. Then when he got to the last set of lights went through on red. Distracted by his phone or admiring his manhood we will never know.
Btw there were children waiting to cross but they waited until all the red light jumpers had finished and then they crossed.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 13:36
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 11:46) *
‘Yes, because using a phone while stopped at the lights is really dangerous. Won't somebody please think of the children!’

Yeah update your Facebook post and upload a funny video of a cat as that’s more important than being in proper control of your vehicle.

What particular danger arises if the driver is momentarily distracted while stationary at traffic lights (and, for the sake of this hypothetical, has the handbrake applied)?


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The Rookie
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 14:01
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I think NML is saying is they try and finish as they drive off, as a cyclist I see mobile phones on laps very often and yes I see them drive off while ‘just finishing’ the post and had a near miss as I was passing the car as they pulled away not realising they had steering on and were so inattentive they not only nearly hit me but the car coming the other way as they were looking back down at their lap as they started off.


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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 14:02
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They aren't momentarily distracted though, they're distracted until they look up and suddenly realise the light has turned green.

They then set off in a rush without proper observations.

That coincides with going through a junction where you have to be on your toes anyway.

Of course momentarily glancing at your phone isn't an issue but that's not what people are doing.


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southpaw82
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 14:52
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Nevertheless, the question was directed to Charlie, whose posts seem to come straight from the Brake school of thought.


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Charlie1010
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 16:46
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Thank you Southpaw.
Nothing to do with Brake. Just an old fogey who struggles with understanding other people’s priorities. Especially when driving or moving in a one and a half tonne lump of metal.
As NML says the distraction endures as long in duration as their reply to the text message, funny cat video post (or is it a video of a funny cat - never sure which), or the latest Tweet from Kim Kardashian.
I’ve seen a lot of collisions that needn’t have happened and many more ‘near misses’. As many say on here put the phone in the boot or turn it off.
Recently drove a car with Apple Carplay, which is displayed using what looks like an iPad stuck to the dashboard, and which (again probably showing my age) seems to offer more distractions.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 17:00
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So, using a mobile phone while stopped at traffic lights is dangerous because the driver might continue to use the mobile phone while actively driving?
Presumably it would be inefficient to wait until they had started moving off to see if they were still using a hand-held mobile phone?


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Charlie1010
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 17:20
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Yes to the first question and do not know to the other question.
Could it be compared to reading a newspaper, playing sudoku, reading the agony page in Jackie magazine or anything else that is distracting and results in poor driving?
Like moving off through a red light.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 17:37
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 18:20) *
Could it be compared to reading a newspaper, playing sudoku, reading the agony page in Jackie magazine or anything else that is distracting and results in poor driving?
Like moving off through a red light.


So, using a hand-held mobile phone whilst stopped at a red light is comparable to jumping a red light? It is often useful to ascertain how rational a poster is before deciding to ignore their insane ramblings.


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 17:39
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reading that lot I need a drink


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Charlie1010
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 18:02
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Who said that?
Suggest you re read my post above.
Now I need a drink!

Yesterday driving into town the guy in front was very slow to move off from the lights at least half a dozen times.
He kept looking down at his lap. Then when he got to the last set of lights went through on red. Distracted by his phone or admiring his manhood we will never know.
Btw there were children waiting to cross but they waited until all the red light jumpers had finished and then they crossed.
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The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 18:10
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 10:33) *
Yes, because using a phone while stopped at the lights is really dangerous. Won't somebody please think of the children!

My take on this strand of the debate is:
  • Such an argument is as fatuous as those who say they were doing 90 on a completely empty motorway at the dead of night, but still got done, and it isn't fair. Regardless of what we think, the law is what it is, and you can't complain if you breach it.
  • Many of those who are using their phones while stopped at lights could well be doing so when in motion, too (though I have no data on this, it's purely speculation).
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