[NIP Wizard] Should I pay or fight? |
[NIP Wizard] Should I pay or fight? |
Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:02
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - December 2017 Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - At M25 Junction 15 to 16, IVER Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Road works on M25 at 23:43. I was under the impression they are fixing lights as well as cameras on test. Also sign were not clear but according to the pictures limit was 40 and I was doing 55 NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 15:02:18 +0000 |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:02
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:18
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 4 Aug 2004 Member No.: 1,486 |
What do you mean by "sign were not clear"?
This post has been edited by mazzer: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:18 |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:18
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I was under the impression they are fixing lights as well as cameras on test. Neither of which assist you. Also sign were not clear but according to the pictures limit was 40 and I was doing 55 You'll have to explain a bit more - the speed limit is shown on the pictures? (HADECS3 do snap the prevailing limit for the avoidance of doubt) -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:52
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
What do you mean by "sign were not clear"? As there were road works and I am sure were driving on the outside lane. My understanding were they were fixing lights etc. The signage provided by the police states 40 I was under the impression they are fixing lights as well as cameras on test. Neither of which assist you. Also sign were not clear but according to the pictures limit was 40 and I was doing 55 You'll have to explain a bit more - the speed limit is shown on the pictures? (HADECS3 do snap the prevailing limit for the avoidance of doubt) |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:57
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
As there were road works and I am sure were driving on the outside lane. My understanding were they were fixing lights etc. The signage provided by the police states 40 It's still not clear. On what basis are you thinking of contesting this? Are you saying the speed limit was not clearly displayed or are you saying you were not exceeding it? |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 15:59
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
Does the attached help?
What do you mean by "sign were not clear"? As there were road works and I am sure were driving on the outside lane. My understanding were they were fixing lights etc. The signage provided by the police states 40 I was under the impression they are fixing lights as well as cameras on test. Neither of which assist you. Also sign were not clear but according to the pictures limit was 40 and I was doing 55 You'll have to explain a bit more - the speed limit is shown on the pictures? (HADECS3 do snap the prevailing limit for the avoidance of doubt)
Attached File(s)
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:11
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:25
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Does the attached help? Nope, why would a random calibration certificate help? Well it confirms it was HADECS 3. This system generally has an auxiliary camera snap of the actual speed signs. Arguing they were not present or insufficient would be futile. I'm not getting the relevance of fixing lights. (Unless there was a requirement for signs to be lit at night - but the HADECS3 limits don't need that) This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:39 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:46
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
Is the calibration not out of date or so as if it was done over 11 months ago?
Does the attached help? Nope, why would a random calibration certificate help? Well it confirms it was HADECS 3. This system generally has an auxiliary camera snap of the actual speed signs. Arguing they were not present or insufficient would be futile. I'm not getting the relevance of fixing lights. (Unless there was a requirement for signs to be lit at night - but the HADECS3 limits don't need that) |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:48
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Is the calibration not out of date or so as if it was done over 11 months ago? Who knows? Not seen the cetrtificate for the device that measured your speed. Would the date affect your measured speed? What defence are you trying to run? Signage? Speed measurement? You were not speeding? This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:52 -------------------- |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:53
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
In received the NIP before XMAS and panicked so sent it back asap due to post delay because of XMAS/New year. Now got the "Conditional Offer of fixed Penalty". If this information helps?
Is the calibration not out of date or so as if it was done over 11 months ago? Who knows? Not seen the cetrtificate for the device that measured your speed. Would the date affect your measured speed? What defence are you trying to run? Signage? Speed? |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 17:00
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Are you sating this was actually the camera that got you? Assuming the calibration certificate is valid for a year, in that case it was in that period when you were caught, and if it was outside the period it would be unlikely to help anyway. I have never heard of anyone successfully fighting an allegation of speeding on the basis that the calibration was out of date, it is a bit of a myth.
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 17:31
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
Yes motorway camera.
Are you sating this was actually the camera that got you? Assuming the calibration certificate is valid for a year, in that case it was in that period when you were caught, and if it was outside the period it would be unlikely to help anyway. I have never heard of anyone successfully fighting an allegation of speeding on the basis that the calibration was out of date, it is a bit of a myth. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 17:45
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
In received the NIP before XMAS and panicked so sent it back asap due to post delay because of XMAS/New year. Now got the "Conditional Offer of fixed Penalty". If this information helps? Now we're getting somewhere. You have been offered a Fixed Penalty to deal with the matter. Assuming you have fewer than nine points on your driving record you will be eligible to accept it. If you want to do so you must pay £100, send in your licence and you will have three points added to your driving record. If you don't want to accept it you can refuse the Fixed Penalty. It will then be dealt with in the court process. You must then choose whether to plead guilty or not guilty. There is no point in refusing the fixed penalty and then pleading guilty in court as it will cost you far more than £100. It may also mean more than three points, depending on the speed alleged (which you have not told us). If you intend to plead Not Guilty you need to have a reason for doing so that gives you a good chance of success. So far you have not suggested anything along those lines and if you are found guilty following a trial the fine and costs will run into many hundreds of pounds. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 17:47
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I’d be accepting that CoFP unless you can identify a defence - you don’t seem to be answering the questions...
NJ - 55 in a 40 (clean licence) This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 17:48 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 18:26
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
NJ - 55 in a 40 (clean licence) Thanks, jlc. I'd missed that. A guilty plea in court will cost you a third of a week's net income, plus £85 costs and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (Min £30, Max £170). So you can see that the surcharge and costs alone will exceed £100 before the fine is considered. A failed Not Guilty plea will see a fine of half a week's income, the same 10% surcharge and costs of up to £620. Both options will see three points. Unless you have a viable defence (and you have still not indicated that you might have) accepting the fixed penalty is the way to go. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 18:37
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 4 Aug 2004 Member No.: 1,486 |
As there were road works and I am sure were driving on the outside lane. My understanding were they were fixing lights etc. It would help if you could answer these simple questions: 1. Which lanes had a 40 limit displayed above them. 2. Do you dispute you went past the camera at 55mph? |
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 16:09
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#18
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,097 |
1. Fast and middle, I was in slow lane
2. I was doing over 40 As there were road works and I am sure were driving on the outside lane. My understanding were they were fixing lights etc. It would help if you could answer these simple questions: 1. Which lanes had a 40 limit displayed above them. 2. Do you dispute you went past the camera at 55mph? This is good info, thanks! NJ - 55 in a 40 (clean licence) Thanks, jlc. I'd missed that. A guilty plea in court will cost you a third of a week's net income, plus £85 costs and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (Min £30, Max £170). So you can see that the surcharge and costs alone will exceed £100 before the fine is considered. A failed Not Guilty plea will see a fine of half a week's income, the same 10% surcharge and costs of up to £620. Both options will see three points. Unless you have a viable defence (and you have still not indicated that you might have) accepting the fixed penalty is the way to go. |
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 16:15
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Do we have individual lane speed restrictions?
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 16:49
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Do we have individual lane speed restrictions? I do not think we do -------------------- |
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