bussss lane Options

[qaz1]

got a PCN being in bus lane ticket last week in bristol, a couple of questions come up:

i am a Canadian citizen and spend little time driving here. the bus lane layout was quite confusing and while trying make sense i ended up on top of the road markings [painted on road] that announced it was a bus lane.

can anyone suggest what would chances be of successfully appealing bus lane ticket on those grounds

also,i understand there are 2 appeal levels, if appeals fail must i pay FULL amount [no discount]
that

any advice appreciated

This post has been edited by qaz1: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 16:57

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[cp8759]

Forget about this emergency vehicle nonsense, it would just damage your credibility. Also forget about the discount, you will undoubtedly have to take this to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal as the council won't accept their PCN is wrong (Because they'd be admitting all their PCNs are wrong). As PASTMYBEST says, the surcharge is a virtually certain winner at the tribunal, as this has gone to the High Court before the adjudicator doesn't have any discretion to "interpret" the law in a different way.

You could just copy/paste what I wrote in post 18, just adjusting the grammar to account for the fact that it's going to be addressed to the council. To be honest as the council are bound to reject it, it hardly matters. When you get the council's Notice of Rejection, upload it on here and we'll draft more detailed grounds of appeal for the tribunal.

[qaz1]

ok...i will do as u both suggest, seems right, good advice, thanks

re the discount: i thought i read on councils site that it remained in place even if the rejected my appeal, [i dont trust their wording not to be tricky] althouigh like you i have faith that Traffic Penalty Tribunal only have one correct optiion in light of previous decision by court.

i looked at tjhat other post/page , wjhat aspect of it do you suggest as being interesting to me?, its not the same camera is it?

well im sure that somewhere sooner or later my poorly ajusted hearing aids and tinnitus will come together and make an emergency vehicle sound....its only a matter of time:), it was a bad idea.

thanks

[PASTMYBEST]

ok...i will do as u both suggest, seems right, good advice, thanks

re the discount: i thought i read on councils site that it remained in place even if the rejected my appeal, [i dont trust their wording not to be tricky] althouigh like you i have faith that Traffic Penalty Tribunal only have one correct optiion in light of previous decision by court.

i looked at tjhat other post/page , wjhat aspect of it do you suggest as being interesting to me?, its not the same camera is it?

well im sure that somewhere sooner or later my poorly ajusted hearing aids and tinnitus will come together and make an emergency vehicle sound....its only a matter of time:), it was a bad idea.

thanks

The other case was exactly the same spot, and with a well drafted representation the council buried their head in the sand and did not respond, nor continue to chase that PCN.

Post a draft of your reps here for review before you send anything to the council and we will help make it strong

[qaz1]

ah...well i sent it today, thought i was asked to post a copy of the councils reply , which i will do. do u srtill want to see copy of it?.
will take another look at rthat thread.

i simply did aas suggested here and copies in the legal discourse after adjusting it to be in the correct context. with a short preliminary para to say :

Dear Sir or Madam,

"I wish to appeal and challenge the validity of the PCN, the following information explains why:

The PCN tells me that i can pay by calling 0870 7077776, and if i do so you will charge me a 2p per minute service charge. This makes the whole PCN invalid, because the amount demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.
"

Then the legal discourse

thanks

This post has been edited by qaz1: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 16:12

[cp8759]

To be honest that should do, penalty exceeds is a sure winner. Post the rejection when you get it, any we can always raise further arguments at the tribunal stage.

[qaz1]

again, tha\nx all for taking an interest. will post reply when i get it

[qaz1]

hi all,
heard from bristol council today, they rejected my appeal saying there are other ways to pay a PCN besides by making a charged for [2p] phone call. would appreciate any advice on how to proceed now. i have 14 day s to decide or take it to adjudicator . i
recall advice that it will probably be best to go to adjudicator as council will not admit to being wrong
thanks again

This post has been edited by qaz1: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:21

[PASTMYBEST]

hi all,
heard from bristol council today, they rejected my appeal saying there are other ways to pay a PCN besides by making a charged for [2p] phone call. would appreciate any advice on how to proceed now. i have 14 day s to decide or take it to adjudicator . i
recall advice that it will probably be best to go to adjudicator as council will not admit to being wrong
thanks again

The judge specifically talked about the other ways to pay, and ruled that it did not matter. if they charge a surcharge then that is illegal.

post the document

[qaz1]

hi all,
heard from bristol council today, they rejected my appeal saying there are other ways to pay a PCN besides by making a charged for [2p] phone call. would appreciate any advice on how to proceed now. i have 14 day s to decide or take it to adjudicator . i
recall advice that it will probably be best to go to adjudicator as council will not admit to being wrong
thanks again

could moderator sort this pls, there seem to be 2 pages both starting with same post, don't know which is current. ta

hi all,
heard from bristol council today, they rejected my appeal saying there are other ways to pay a PCN besides by making a charged for [2p] phone call. would appreciate any advice on how to proceed now. i have 14 day s to decide or take it to adjudicator . i
recall advice that it will probably be best to go to adjudicator as council will not admit to being wrong
thanks again

The judge specifically talked about the other ways to pay, and ruled that it did not matter. if they charge a surcharge then that is illegal.

post the document

yes i just had a look, suppose i should continue to the adjudicater. thing is though i don't really agree with the judge. i think that if other means of payment [free] are offered it is perfectly fair




This post has been edited by qaz1: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:47

[peterguk]

could moderator sort this pls, there seem to be 2 pages both starting with same post

don't know which is current.

The opening post (your first post that started the thread) always appears at the top of each page.

To save confusion, each page is cunningly numbered, starting with no.1, then 2 and so on.

[cp8759]

hi all,
heard from bristol council today, they rejected my appeal saying there are other ways to pay a PCN besides by making a charged for [2p] phone call. would appreciate any advice on how to proceed now. i have 14 day s to decide or take it to adjudicator . i
recall advice that it will probably be best to go to adjudicator as council will not admit to being wrong
thanks again

The High Court has said that it makes no difference if there's other payment methods, if any of the payment methods include a surcharge then the PCN is invalid.

Upload a copy of their letter and we'll take it from there.

[qaz1]

could moderator sort this pls, there seem to be 2 pages both starting with same post

don't know which is current.

The opening post (your first post that started the thread) always appears at the top of each page.

To save confusion, each page is cunningly numbered, starting with no.1, then 2 and so on.

This post has been edited by qaz1: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 10:35

[qaz1]

would some one please advise, when i appeal to the adjudicater will i need to resubmit my reasons or will they get them from the first appeal to the council. ?

the original appeal letter [and reasons] may be hard to find on my new pc

thanks

This post has been edited by qaz1: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 10:46

[PASTMYBEST]

would some one please advise, when i appeal to the adjudicater will i need to resubmit my reasons or will they get them from the first appeal to the council. ?

the original appeal letter [and reasons] may be hard to find on my new pc

thanks

you will need to submit an appeal, we will help you draft it but we will need to see the notice of rejextion

[qaz1]

will try and post it tomorrow

[qaz1]

here is the letter, hope i made it easy to read . look forward to peoples advice on making an appeal
thanks

This post has been edited by qaz1: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 17:50

[PASTMYBEST]

here is the letter, hope i made it easy to read . look forward to peoples advice on making an appeal
thanks

All of it please

[qaz1]

it says 62 kb max, thats unreadable i ve been trying, sorry

[cp8759]

Upload to imgur.com and post a link

[qaz1]

https://imgur.com/PLg8U2V

https://imgur.com/a/yUQ0p0S

https://imgur.com/a/yUQ0p0S

one page has 2 pics other page has 1 pic

This post has been edited by qaz1: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 18:01