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PCN issues by CPM, CPM requesting payment
PCN fines
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 19:36
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Hello there,

Hope someone can help and advise.

I got a ticket in the post but I was not the driver and it did not have any space to input the details of the driver so I logged on to their website and provided the details of the driver.

Now I keep getting letters from their debit collection agency requesting payment. I called the company and told them I provided the details of the driver but they told me name of the driver and address is not enough and it is too late now for me to do anything else but to pay or they will take legal action and get the money.

I thought if I was not the driver and I give the driver details they don’t come back to me anymore.

Please advise what the law is in terms of this situation.

Thanks

This post has been edited by PCN fines: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 19:37
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post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 19:36
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The Rookie
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 19:58
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They are lying, name and serviceable address is all you have to provide, and there is no time limit except them issuing a court claim when it is then too late.

DO NOT bother engaging with debt collectors they are toothless and can be ignored. Respond only if you get a letter before claim/action from either CPM or solicitors.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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ostell
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 21:43
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As a matter of interest what additional details, other than name and address, did they require?

They can only claim from the keeper if they are not aware of the identity of the driver. POFA 5 (1) (b) conditions gave not been met.

As said ignore the debt collectors and if it goes to court then claim full expenses for their unreasonable behaviour.

Have you got proof that you gave them the driver details? If not then write to them again pointing out that the condition of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 paragraph 5 (1) (b) has not been met and you, as the keeper, cannot be held liable for the charge. Send first class post and get a free certificate of posting from any post office.

Here's POFA: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9...edule/4/enacted
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PCN fines
post Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 19:26
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Hi
Thanks for the advice.

They did not have a tare off slip at the back of the PCN like I have seen my neighbours son got so I went on to their website and gave the drivers details and I video evidence and photos.

They would not say what other information only just I must now pay and I am responsible for the PCN.

What does the law say about these PCN do we need to pay it if one has parked without a permit in a housing association estate parking.

Thanks
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Jlc
post Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 19:30
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QUOTE (PCN fines @ Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 20:26) *
What does the law say about these PCN do we need to pay it if one has parked without a permit in a housing association estate parking.

The law is clear on whether keeper liability accrues - as above. If a name and address of the driver has been supplied then the keeper has no liability whatsoever.

In terms of more general this is a contractual matter. It's effectively an invoice/charge for parking. If the driver has parked in a location where a permit is required then it is likely that the Judge would agree the contract* to pay £100 was accepted by conduct (parking).



* but it's not always that simple. For example the sign may be 'forbidding' and not actually offer a contract at all.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 14 Jul 2020 - 06:20
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QUOTE (PCN fines @ Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 20:26) *
What does the law say about these PCN do we need to pay it if one has parked without a permit in a housing association estate parking.

There is no law (directly) on the validity of notices or otherwise, it relies on contract law and is dealt with in the same way as any other contract.

So was the driver able to enter a contract with them, did the signage create a contract, is the contract enforceable, ALL (literally all) PoFA does is allow them to sue the keeper for the drivers liabilities (hence only if the driver would have been liable) if they meet certain criteria (they usually don't) and if they don't know the name of the driver.

I'd suggest a SAR to their data controller for everything they hold against your name, this should then include that you provided the drivers details, you'll have solid proof they have them as well.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 - 06:22


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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PCN fines
post Wed, 15 Jul 2020 - 19:19
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Thanks everyone let see if I get any more letter and I’ll follow your advice.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 09:19
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CPM is in the IPC who don't say what to do if the driver doesn't reply.

However it contains an error with respect to the address where it says
QUOTE
in the case of the driver, an address at which the driver for the time being resides or can be conveniently be contacted;
“conveniently contacted” in the context of the preceding paragraph, means an address which is convenient to the operator for the purposes of properly establishing their identity

PoFA schedule 4 makes no such allowance, a driver living in Australia is till the driver even if it's a bit inconvenient for the operator (in that the driver is untouchable apart from anything else) but its still the name and address of the driver.

Personally I'd say that is a GDPR breach and also would constitute harassment.


For completeness there is an error in the BPA PCN flowchart on page 41
https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Docu..._2020_v8(2).pdf
Where is suggests they can chase the keeper just because the driver doesn't reply.

Unless perhaps a 'trace' showed no sign the driver existed I'd suggest that would also be a GDPR breach.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 09:21


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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