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High Road:Dowsett road N17 Harringey council PCN, Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign
Khialmohd
post Tue, 25 Aug 2015 - 20:31
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Hello everyone,

I have received a PCN from Haringey council for the alleged contravention: Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign proceeding in the wrong direction. The vehicle was seen in : High road: J/W Dowsett road, N17. The PCN doesn't say contravention code.
I have turned left at the junction rather than driving ahead.

I need your kind opinion regarding the grounds on which i can challenge this PCN. I also would like to share the following link which tells about the unattended road side camera for the purpose of understanding the time of contravention and the unattended camera code.(Parking Enforcement CCTV camera locations
Haringey Council, Traffic Management CCTV operational hours are as follows

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/environment-and...amera-locations.

Please find attached copy of PCN and video link.
https://viewmypcn.co.uk/view.aspx

I am looking forward to hear from you.

Kind regards

This post has been edited by Khialmohd: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 19:53
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post Tue, 25 Aug 2015 - 20:31
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Khialmohd
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 10:37
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Hello

Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please.
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Incandescent
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 11:10
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 11:37) *
Hello

Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please.

It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in.
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boxers64
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:03
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:10) *
QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 11:37) *
Hello

Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please.

It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in.


London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003

Section 4
Penalty Charges for Road Traffic Contraventions
Paragraph (8)
Penalty Charge Notice under This Section Must—(A) State
(i) The grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
(iii) That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(viii) That the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act;

The mentioned PCN doses not state the prescribed mandatory content highlighted above as required by the act> mad.gif
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:51
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GSV:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5951147,-...3312!8i6656

I thought the direction arrow used was for one-way streets. If a left turn is prohibited we should see a red sign to that effect. Very confusing, but I am not a signs expert.

Mick
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Khialmohd
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 15:13
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 13:51) *
GSV:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5951147,-...3312!8i6656

I thought the direction arrow used was for one-way streets. If a left turn is prohibited we should see a red sign to that effect. Very confusing, but I am not a signs expert.

Mick


There is only ahead sign. I turned left at the jucation. That juncation is not a " NO Entry" otherwise i would have gone straight. Drive left at the jucation doesn't effect any traffic or put any one in danger. I didn't see any camera or prohibated truning sign. I am not from that area, so i had no idea of those unattended mobile cameras.

QUOTE (boxers64 @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 13:03) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:10) *
QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 11:37) *
Hello

Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please.

It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in.


London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003

Section 4
Penalty Charges for Road Traffic Contraventions
Paragraph (8)
Penalty Charge Notice under This Section Must—(A) State
(i) The grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
(iii) That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(viii) That the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act;

The mentioned PCN doses not state the prescribed mandatory content highlighted above as required by the act> mad.gif



Thanks for your kind reply. Shall i mention "([b]viii) That the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act" this in my challenge form please?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 15:25
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You state that

Procedural Impropriety:

The required wording "..." has not been included on the PCN. This is a precedural impropriety on the part of the council

Or words to that affect.
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Khialmohd
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 16:13
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:10) *
QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 11:37) *
Hello

Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please.

It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in.



There is only ahead sign. I turned left at the jucation. That juncation is not a " NO Entry" otherwise i would have gone straight. Drive left at the jucation doesn't effect any traffic or put any one in danger. I didn't see any camera or prohibated truning sign. I am not from that area, so i had no idea of those unattended mobile cameras.
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Incandescent
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 20:23
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 16:25) *
You state that

Procedural Impropriety:

The required wording "..." has not been included on the PCN. This is a precedural impropriety on the part of the council

Or words to that affect.

The exact words in the statute do not have to be put on the PCN, but the meaning has to be clear. Your PCN explains how to make an appeal and thus complies with the Act as far as I can see.

This is what the Act says regarding content of PCNs: -


QUOTE
9 Fixed penalty notices

(1)The provisions of this section shall have effect in relation to notices (“fixed penalty notices”) which may be given under section 8 (Fixed penalty offences) of this Act.

2)Where a person is given a fixed penalty notice in respect of an offence—
(a)no proceedings shall be instituted for that offence before the expiration of 14 days following the date of the notice; and
(b)he shall not be convicted of that offence if he pays the fixed penalty before the expiration of that period.

(3)A fixed penalty notice under this section shall give such particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute the offence as are necessary for giving reasonable information of the offence and shall state—
(a)the period during which, by virtue of subsection (2) above, proceedings will not be taken for the offence;
(b)the amount of the fixed penalty; and
©the name of the person to whom and the address at which the fixed penalty may be paid; and, without prejudice to payment by any other method, payment of the fixed penalty may be made by pre-paying and posting to that person at that address a letter containing the amount of the penalty (in cash or otherwise).

(4)Where a letter is sent in accordance with subsection (3) above, payment shall be regarded as having been made at the time at which that letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

(5)The form of notices under this section shall be such as the Secretary of State may by regulations prescribe.

(6)The fixed penalty payable in pursuance of a fixed penalty notice under this section shall be paid to the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be.

(7)In any proceedings a certificate which—
(a)purports to be signed by or on behalf of the chief finance officer of the council, or as the case may be, Transport for London; and
(b)states that payment of a fixed penalty was or was not received by a date specified in the certificate,
shall be evidence of the facts stated.


If this is your sole point of appeal then be prepared to lose.
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Khialmohd
post Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 21:02
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Hi Incandescent

Do you mean there is no flaws in the wording? Shall i pay it?

Regards
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boxers64
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 11:09
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 22:02) *
Hi Incandescent

Do you mean there is no flaws in the wording? Shall i pay it?

Regards



[quote name='Khialmohd' date='Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 22:02' post='1105601']
Hi Incandescent

Do you mean there is no flaws in the wording? Shall i pay it?

Regards
[/quote(5)The form of notices under this section shall be such as the Secretary of State may by regulations prescribe
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t4xy
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 15:17
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Hi Khialmohd

With all due respect are you really saying that you did not know that an ahead only arrow at traffic lights means exactly that?? its like saying you didnt know a red light means stop.
No one likes this revenue baised policing but I cant see how you could possibly argue this one, I personally would pay it and read the highway code.

Sorry mellow.gif
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Khialmohd
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 16:59
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QUOTE (t4xy @ Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 16:17) *
Hi Khialmohd

With all due respect are you really saying that you did not know that an ahead only arrow at traffic lights means exactly that?? its like saying you didnt know a red light means stop.
No one likes this revenue baised policing but I cant see how you could possibly argue this one, I personally would pay it and read the highway code.

Sorry mellow.gif



You are absolutely right about the ahead arrow.But the camera timings on Saturday is until 13:00 and I was there around 13:23.but at the same time council say unattended camera can be 24hrs.
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peterguk
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 17:29
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 17:59) *
the camera timings on Saturday is until 13:00 and I was there around 13:23.


So you ignored the "ahead only" sign because you thought you wouldn't be caught?


--------------------
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Khialmohd
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 18:57
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 18:29) *
QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 17:59) *
the camera timings on Saturday is until 13:00 and I was there around 13:23.


So you ignored the "ahead only" sign because you thought you wouldn't be caught?


Wish I had ignored it on purpose.
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Incandescent
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 20:33
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Basically, you are bang-to-rights, the PCN is compliant in that it does have the information required to be in it according to the relevant Act. Your best option is to pay the discount, IMHO.
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Khialmohd
post Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 21:07
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 21:33) *
Basically, you are bang-to-rights, the PCN is compliant in that it does have the information required to be in it according to the relevant Act. Your best option is to pay the discount, IMHO.


Thanks everyone for your kind support. I will pay it.
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