Riding without reasonable consideration - from headcam footage |
Riding without reasonable consideration - from headcam footage |
Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:32
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Member No.: 1,859 |
Hello,
A member of the public on a motorbike sent headcam footage to the police of me overtaking him on my mootorbike while he was allegedly doing 30mph himself. I have been sent a NIP for 'driving without reasonable consideration for other users' and am at the point where I need to make a court plea in the next few days. The video just shows be overtaking in the right hand lane while he's in the left lane of a two-lane road, no lack of consideration is apparent to me and it seems the only suggestion is that I was going over the speed limit. There's a speed figure showing on the footage, which I presume is GPS, which shows him doing 28-31 mph around the time. He looks at his speedo which showed around 30mph too. I don't think I could have been over the speed limit though. Another bike overtakes the same way just before me which adds to my belief that the taker of the video was actually travelling less than 30mph. Is this persons headcam speedo admissible evidence to prove my own speed? I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct? Thank you for any advice/information |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:32
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:40
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
Hello, A member of the public on a motorbike sent headcam footage to the police of me overtaking him on my mootorbike while he was allegedly doing 30mph himself. I have been sent a NIP for 'driving without reasonable consideration for other users' and am at the point where I need to make a court plea in the next few days. The video just shows be overtaking in the right hand lane while he's in the left lane of a two-lane road, no lack of consideration is apparent to me and it seems the only suggestion is that I was going over the speed limit. There's a speed figure showing on the footage, which I presume is GPS, which shows him doing 28-31 mph around the time. He looks at his speedo which showed around 30mph too. I don't think I could have been over the speed limit though. Another bike overtakes the same way just before me which adds to my belief that the taker of the video was actually travelling less than 30mph. Is this persons headcam speedo admissible evidence to prove my own speed? I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct? Thank you for any advice/information Others will be along to advise but did the registered keepr of your bike get a request to state who was riding it at the time . |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:47
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct? AFAIK, incorrect. In fact there have been some well-publicised prosecutions as a result of footage on the inrernet. As said above, if you have received a request for driver information you are obliged to reply with driver details regardless, else 6 points will be the reward. -------------------- |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:19
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Member No.: 1,859 |
Yes, I repsonded to say that I was riding the bike at the time.
I wasn't able to accept the offer of 3 points and a £100 fine as I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to have done before being sent the video. |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:39
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 196 Joined: 23 Aug 2013 Member No.: 64,667 |
Who was inconvenienced by your riding?
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:15
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct? Certainly not as far as I'm aware, in fact Police have used evidence posted by the drivers themselves on SM to prosecute them. Certainly no logical reason why not, does this mean you can supply a link to it, in which case that would be helpful. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:32
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Member No.: 1,859 |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:35
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
Yes, I repsonded to say that I was riding the bike at the time. I wasn't able to accept the offer of 3 points and a £100 fine as I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to have done before being sent the video. OP, were you sent the video after pleading not guilty? |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:41
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Yes, I repsonded to say that I was riding the bike at the time. I wasn't able to accept the offer of 3 points and a £100 fine as I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to have done before being sent the video. OP, were you sent the video after pleading not guilty? CoFP would have been long gone by the time OP made a plea. Looks like you overtook on the inside further up? If he was doing 30, you must have been 45-50! -------------------- |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:57
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
If he was doing 30, you must have been 45-50! I think the rider was doing slightly under 30 and the OP just over (and slowing). I can't make out the rider's speedo clearly enough though. (But the speed isn't the primary factor in this allegation - but could aggravate) I'm not convinced they will be able to show, "A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his driving" but the 'undertake' on the black Galaxy (?) seems more relevant. But there's an element of subjectivity to that which always has a risk at court. The CPS's own guidance says: This offence is appropriate when the driving amounts to a clear act of incompetence, selfishness, impatience or aggressiveness in addition to some other inconvenience to road users. The following examples are typical of actions likely to be regarded as inconsiderate driving: flashing of lights to force other drivers in front to give way; misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers; unnecessarily remaining in an overtaking lane; unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause; driving with un-dipped headlights which dazzle oncoming drivers, cyclists or pedestrians; driving through a puddle causing pedestrians to be splashed; driving a bus in such a way as to alarm passengers. This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:00 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:04
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 272 Joined: 19 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,499 |
misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers; There is some undertaking in the bus lane from the bike I am presuming is his (for example, around 0:35 in the video) - whether that could well be it? Only other possibility is the speed in the 20mph zone towards the end of the video - the camera bike was doing an indicated 23 and you were pulling away from him at a fair rate. I suspect this may well be it, otherwise why would they have kept the video to this length otherwise (esp. when you are out of frame or stopped in the middle part!) This post has been edited by mdann52: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:07 |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:13
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
Only other possibility is the speed in the 20mph zone towards the end of the video - the camera bike was doing an indicated 23 and you were pulling away from him at a fair rate. I suspect this may well be it, otherwise why would they have kept the video to this length otherwise (esp. when you are out of frame or stopped in the middle part!) I thought bikers called that "filtering" :-). Whatever it's called, though, it doesn't appear inconsiderate, aggressive or to inconvenience anyone at all. |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:28
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#13
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Going by that video things have clearly changed since I was a regular biker - not least that the "lifesaver" seems to have been abandoned in favour of an unhealthy obsession with the speedometer. I don't recall rushing to report other bikers' minor transgressions to the police, either.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:55
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
Going by that video things have clearly changed since I was a regular biker - not least that the "lifesaver" seems to have been abandoned in favour of an unhealthy obsession with the speedometer. I don't recall rushing to report other bikers' minor transgressions to the police, either. " Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" seems to have been forgotten |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 18:29
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I can't see anything in that piece of riding that inconveniences anyone else, or anything worth reporting to the police.
-------------------- |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 19:10
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#16
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,213 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
I can only assume that the guy who reported the non-incident was in a bad mood because his mum had spilled his coco-pops over his best "Polite" vest.
-------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 19:33
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,340 Joined: 18 Apr 2008 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 18,924 |
The world has gone mad
There seems to be a lot of footage post 'criminal act'....in quotes because I'm not entirely sure where this act is. The standard of riding (the guy with the camera) is appalling - leads me to believe nothing than a cbt has been taken.... |
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Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 09:03
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: 16 Jun 2010 From: sw11 Member No.: 38,303 |
I can't beleive it ... any of it, not least the atrocious standard of riding of the moron with the video camera!
Undertaking in a bus lane is an interesting point ... Bus Lanes are designed so that buses can undertake, and are separated from the other lanes by a (predominently) solid white line ... but does that actually mean it's a separate lane of the highway? What stage is the OP at? Received a combined NIP/S172 request and responded to confirm they were the rider at the time of the allegation, a COFP has been made, has the OP actually rejected this or received a SJP? -------------------- PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.
You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already. |
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Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 09:13
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
The filming was ay 0521 if the clock on the video was correct, but I could not see clearly enough to tell what hours the bus lane was operative. I notice the camera bike is in the bus lane most of the time and other traffic is mostly avoiding it.
-------------------- |
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Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 09:57
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 972 Joined: 25 Jul 2010 Member No.: 39,245 |
From that video clip the bike that overtakes after 28 seconds appears to be speeding but it needs reasonably good equipment to record speeding offences, which can happen over a longer distance by taking an average speed between two points but can't see how that short clip can record an accurate enough speed of the vehicle overtaking to be used in court.
Regards CD20 I can't see it myself but as CD20 can now be handled by CoFP they chance it? Anyway not sure if you have to send something back to request a court hearing, after which you'll probably hear nothing as I doubt anything can be proven from that. Motorcycles are allowed to use the bus lane on Holloway Road. The biggest hazards on that stretch are usually vehicles turning across side roads. |
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