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Hammersmith & Fulham PCN incorrect VRN electronic payment, 1 incorrect character on electronic Ringgo payment
markie
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:29
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Hi Guys,

Can I ask for your expert help on behalf of my cousin who has received a PCN from H&F for 1 incorrect VRN character on electronic parking payment with RingGo.

On 05FEB19 he parked his van in STERNDALE ROAD W6 and using RingGo telephone service he paid £9.20 for 4 hours of parking.
English is not his first language and he speaks with an East European accent and speaking his VRN: ****AVC was registered as ****ABC
When the automated system read back his information he just 'heard' AVC instead of ABC (knowing him he has loads on his mind and this would be a genuine mistake)

He received text confirmation;
****ABC parked in zone
17731 from 08:59 on Tue
05/02/19 until 13:00 on
Tue 05/02/19. You have
been charged £9.20.
myringgo.com

Again, he probably didn't check this properly as he would have been in a hurry - he is a builder.

The location was the parking bay outside 26 Sterndale Road W6.

The PCN was issued at 10:52 and I have requested the pictures.

I have attached;
Scan of the PCN (front & back)
Screenshots of the sign at the location (from google maps Nov17).

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
 


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LB Islington 0 - 1 Markie76
LB Camden 1 - 2 Markie76
TFL 0 - 1 Markie76 (on aggregate uncontested PCNs 2 -1 grrr!)


*** Anything I write on these forums is merely an expression of my own personal opinion and is not a substitute for advice from a recognised legal professional or professional person adequately trained/qualified in the subject matter. ***
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post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:29
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stamfordman
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 12:44
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You can ask for discretion supplying evidence of payment but we've seen H&F and other councils reject these because...

QUOTE (markie @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:29) *
Again, he probably didn't check this properly as he would have been in a hurry - he is a builder.


If only all builders were in a hurry...

If council was following fairness guidelines it would cancel at least once for this

I don't think we have H&F's policy on discretion and examples so worth asking for.
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markie
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 13:22
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 12:44) *
If only all builders were in a hurry...

HAHA YES!!! biggrin.gif

Thank you for your reply.


What is the best way (FOI?) to get the discretion policy & how long does it take?
It's been a while since I've had a PCN and I was looking at the slip itself and wondered;
* Misaligned print making some of the data/print illegible?
* Doesn't it need to mention how to appeal?

Shall I advise him to lodge an appeal that he has paid but failed to check properly - to preserve the discount period while waiting for the discretion policy/examples?

Thanks.


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Make them fight to get your cash....!!!

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LB Islington 0 - 1 Markie76
LB Camden 1 - 2 Markie76
TFL 0 - 1 Markie76 (on aggregate uncontested PCNs 2 -1 grrr!)


*** Anything I write on these forums is merely an expression of my own personal opinion and is not a substitute for advice from a recognised legal professional or professional person adequately trained/qualified in the subject matter. ***
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stamfordman
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 13:46
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Yes, put in an informal challenge saying that I made a small error with the VRM on the Ringgo system after using voice recognition but fully paid for parking, as per the enclosed receipt. It was simply that a V became a B.

Add something like:

I understand that your policy is to use discretion for an honest error that does not disadvantage the council on a first occasion, and would kindly request that you would exercise such discretion for my case, and I intend to register the vehicle on Ringgo to avoid a voice recognition error in future.

No point in doing an FOI - just see what they come back with.

the PCN looks OK to me - you can read the details and the appeal details are on the back.

But wait for any other comment.

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markie
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 14:11
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 13:46) *
you can read the details and the appeal details are on the back.

OMG!!! Yes they are - how did I miss that! I'm sure I read through it all AND edited the scans aswell blush.gif excl.gif blush.gif


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LB Islington 0 - 1 Markie76
LB Camden 1 - 2 Markie76
TFL 0 - 1 Markie76 (on aggregate uncontested PCNs 2 -1 grrr!)


*** Anything I write on these forums is merely an expression of my own personal opinion and is not a substitute for advice from a recognised legal professional or professional person adequately trained/qualified in the subject matter. ***
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markie
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 10:50
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Hammersmith & Fulham says "Unknown ticket details"...?

On Tuesday I went to the 'view my PCN' website to request/view the picture evidence.
I typed in the PCN number and VRN and a message popped up they are being prepared and it could take upto 24 hours (suggesting the PCN number & VRN had been verified) - if I wanted an email notification when they are ready then to enter and email & confirm it below. Otherwise to come back to this website and search again and when ready they will be viewable.

Nothing for a few days of re-checking so I went back to the website and tried again but this time I entered an email address to receive the notification.

I received the following email:
Subject: Unknown ticket details
Message: There was a problem encountered during the processing of your recent Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) request, please check that the PCN number and vehicle registration mark details supplied are accurate and retry. Alternatively please contact the Local Authority / issuing body for further assistance.

I clicked on the link to 'retry' and re-entered the PCN number and VRN from the PCN and clicked continue to receive the response:
Ticket details are unknown, check details and resubmit or contact issuer.

Please see attached screenshots.

If the issuing council are sending a message "Unknown ticket details" and no pictures of the alleged contravention are available - whats the situation?

Thanks,

Mark
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 


--------------------
Make them fight to get your cash....!!!

Click HERE for a 'How To Post Scans/Images'


LB Islington 0 - 1 Markie76
LB Camden 1 - 2 Markie76
TFL 0 - 1 Markie76 (on aggregate uncontested PCNs 2 -1 grrr!)


*** Anything I write on these forums is merely an expression of my own personal opinion and is not a substitute for advice from a recognised legal professional or professional person adequately trained/qualified in the subject matter. ***
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stamfordman
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 11:05
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Try here:

https://lbhf.xrxpsc.com/OCMLive/Default.aspx
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markie
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 12:01
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 12:05) *

That works thanks.


--------------------
Make them fight to get your cash....!!!

Click HERE for a 'How To Post Scans/Images'


LB Islington 0 - 1 Markie76
LB Camden 1 - 2 Markie76
TFL 0 - 1 Markie76 (on aggregate uncontested PCNs 2 -1 grrr!)


*** Anything I write on these forums is merely an expression of my own personal opinion and is not a substitute for advice from a recognised legal professional or professional person adequately trained/qualified in the subject matter. ***
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markie
post Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 21:33
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This is what I've come up with;

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to appeal PCN: XXXXXXXXX because I made a small error with my registration number on the Ringgo system using voice recognition but fully paid for parking, as per the attached picture of the SMS confirmation showing I had paid for parking at the location during the time the PCN was issued. It was simply that a V became a B. 

English is not my mother tongue and I speak with an accent.
My vehicle registration is: ****AVC but this entered the automated system as ****ABC and is what I confirmed in error.
As I was in a hurry to be on site with a client I did not double check the confirmation SMS message.

I understand that your policy is to use discretion for an honest error that does not disadvantage the council on a first occasion, and would kindly request that you would exercise such discretion for my mistake.
I will always make sure to double check the SMS confirmation message before leaving my vehicle when I use voice recognition payment systems in future. To avoid a repeat of such a mistake.

Kind Regards,


Attached: Picture of RINGGO payment confirmation SMS showing £9.20 paid for 4 hours parking on 05/02/2019 08:59-13:00."


What do you reckon?

This post has been edited by markie: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 21:34


--------------------
Make them fight to get your cash....!!!

Click HERE for a 'How To Post Scans/Images'


LB Islington 0 - 1 Markie76
LB Camden 1 - 2 Markie76
TFL 0 - 1 Markie76 (on aggregate uncontested PCNs 2 -1 grrr!)


*** Anything I write on these forums is merely an expression of my own personal opinion and is not a substitute for advice from a recognised legal professional or professional person adequately trained/qualified in the subject matter. ***
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stamfordman
post Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 21:50
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Looks good to me - totally honest and you can't really do any more.

You could lose this line though to not bend over backwards too much:

As I was in a hurry to be on site with a client I did not double check the confirmation SMS message.
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Slapdash
post Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 22:35
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When it confirms the registration does it simply read it back or is it read back phonetically ?

In the former case AVC and ABC would sound very similar. Any sort of ambient noise would make recognition of a difference unlikely.

May be worth considering mentioning.

I know that it would be clear from the confirmation but that is an after the event thing.

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stamfordman
post Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 22:55
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Sun, 17 Feb 2019 - 22:35) *
I know that it would be clear from the confirmation but that is an after the event thing.


If you get the details wrong on Ringgo you have 10 mins or perhaps more to correct it.

I don't advise anyone to use voice recognition - the smartphone app is perfectly fine and can be set up in advance with both car reg and credit/debit card.
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