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4 PCNs with codes 33H and 33I - USING A ROUTE RESTRICTED TO CERTAIN VEHICLES BUSES ONLY - Harrow
Optima_5123
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 23:24
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I have been shocked to receive four PCNs for the same contraventions. I have attached them with this topic. Two of them have code 33H and the other two code 33I. How significant is this? It can be seen that two tickets were issued within one minute of each other. Also, what is the statutory time between the date of the contravention and the date the council should serve the PCN. Is it 14 days? Cause they might have failed to meet this requirement. Please can you help me out with this and what are my chances of getting these cancelled. Many thanks.










This post has been edited by Optima_5123: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:09
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post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 23:24
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 17:53
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QUOTE
I want to see all in one place all tour correspondence to the council and theirs to you

all that you have sent to the tribunal

If the hearing is on the 20th you had best look sharp with this



QUOTE
Notice of rejection x 4 where are they

Registration of appeal X 4 confirm

What you are showing us relates to one PCN only which one?


you can get whatever feeling you like, but don't expect me to keep trawling back through the thread put everything in one place so i can assess your representations and the councils responses and help draft an appeal. as the sign used to say in my mates pub.

"If you want to call time by your watch, but your own pub"


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Optima_5123
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 20:26
Post #102


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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 18:53) *
QUOTE
I want to see all in one place all tour correspondence to the council and theirs to you

all that you have sent to the tribunal

If the hearing is on the 20th you had best look sharp with this



QUOTE
Notice of rejection x 4 where are they

Registration of appeal X 4 confirm

What you are showing us relates to one PCN only which one?


you can get whatever feeling you like, but don't expect me to keep trawling back through the thread put everything in one place so i can assess your representations and the councils responses and help draft an appeal. as the sign used to say in my mates pub.

"If you want to call time by your watch, but your own pub"


I have been quite responsive to your requests and trying my best to do so. But if you want to complicate matters then it is up to. I have put everything in this post. Is it my fault when someone contributes to this thread in between my documents? Where else do you want them to be?

As I mentioned before, all documents are all identical in content for all PCNs, except of course for their references. Please can you draft an appeal based on what I have uploaded which is the complete set of documents of one PCN.

Once again, you said that you wanted them in one place. Where should that be?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 20:41
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QUOTE (Optima_5123 @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 21:26) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 18:53) *
QUOTE
I want to see all in one place all tour correspondence to the council and theirs to you

all that you have sent to the tribunal

If the hearing is on the 20th you had best look sharp with this



QUOTE
Notice of rejection x 4 where are they

Registration of appeal X 4 confirm

What you are showing us relates to one PCN only which one?


you can get whatever feeling you like, but don't expect me to keep trawling back through the thread put everything in one place so i can assess your representations and the councils responses and help draft an appeal. as the sign used to say in my mates pub.

"If you want to call time by your watch, but your own pub"


I have been quite responsive to your requests and trying my best to do so. But if you want to complicate matters then it is up to. I have put everything in this post. Is it my fault when someone contributes to this thread in between my documents? Where else do you want them to be?

As I mentioned before, all documents are all identical in content for all PCNs, except of course for their references. Please can you draft an appeal based on what I have uploaded which is the complete set of documents of one PCN.

Once again, you said that you wanted them in one place. Where should that be?


One post here in this thread. I have a half day free tomorrow. If the documents are there i will do a draft if not i won't


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Optima_5123
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 08:04
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I am getting error messages:

Sorry, but you have posted more images than you are allowed to

Sorry, but when your post merges with your previous post, you will have used too many images in your combined posts

This post has been edited by Optima_5123: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:41
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Neil B
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 08:10
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QUOTE (Optima_5123 @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 09:04) *
Sorry, but when your post merges with your previous post, you will have used too many images in your combined posts

It can't merge now.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Optima_5123
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 08:15
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.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 09:10) *
It can't merge now.


What is the solution?

This post has been edited by Optima_5123: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 08:14
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 10:08
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Use imgur or fliker I do not want case summaries' I want notice s of rejection and your representations The notice of rejection is a statutory document if there are errors they could win for you or if they have not considered your representation, rather just telling you what you have done that also can win

If you need to delete every thing else other than the PCN's in the opening post. I cannot keep flicking back and too looking for things that might not even be there

re your e mail (stop sending them) i do not want nor need 26 pages 4 representations and 4 notice of rejection will give me enough to work on

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 10:58


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Neil B
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 11:30
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QUOTE (Optima_5123 @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 09:15) *
.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 09:10) *
It can't merge now.


What is the solution?

My post was the solution but it seems to have sailed over.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Optima_5123
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 19:58
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 11:08) *
Use imgur or fliker I do not want case summaries' I want notice s of rejection and your representations The notice of rejection is a statutory document if there are errors they could win for you or if they have not considered your representation, rather just telling you what you have done that also can win

If you need to delete every thing else other than the PCN's in the opening post. I cannot keep flicking back and too looking for things that might not even be there

re your e mail (stop sending them) i do not want nor need 26 pages 4 representations and 4 notice of rejection will give me enough to work on


PCN#1 Representation




PCN#1 NoR




PCN#2 Representation




PCN#2 NoR




PCN#3 Representation





It wont let me upload more. But you can clearly see that the NoR's and the representations are all the same.
Also, please note that their NoRs were issued before the submission of my representation. This can be verified from the dates of issue.
Moreover, if you remember, the council served the NoRs in a Second-Class postage, contrary to the regulation.
I used your email to attract your attention that I updated my post.

This post has been edited by Optima_5123: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 20:05
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 20:58
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right when do you have to submit by. I put off seeing my granddaughter this afternoon to deal with this. I can spare a couple of hours tomorrow night and some time Thursday lunch time to finish off


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Optima_5123
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 23:20
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 21:58) *
right when do you have to submit by. I put off seeing my granddaughter this afternoon to deal with this. I can spare a couple of hours tomorrow night and some time Thursday lunch time to finish off


Please convey my apology to your grand-daughter.

I need to submit by Wed 27/6/18.

Thank you in anticipation

This post has been edited by Optima_5123: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 23:23
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 19:34
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Right, lets get things straight. You have really pi**ed me off. I have no commitment to you, I offer my help and advice without conditions. The advice you are free to take or not, the help I am free to give or not.

I posted, post 99 at 17.57 on the 18th of June “When you respond as asked to posts 86 and 90 i will re examine the thread and give a view on appeal(s) i will not respond to PM's or e mails through the site”


Your post 100 sent at 18.31 on the 18th of June says “ I have responded to your posts and provided you with all of the information you need.

Why do I get the feeling that you are trying to avoid your commitment. And why did you have to wait for a week to tell me that?”

To question my commitment even if I had made a commitment to you is frankly offensive. You have not done as I requested in post 86 and 91. You seem to be displaying a sense of entitlement to something that you have no right to.

Regardless I posted later that same night at post 103 “ I have a half day free tomorrow. If the documents are there i will do a draft if not i won't”. here I make a commitment to you based on you doing something to help.

YOU DID NOT no adequate response was made until 20.58 of the next day. Still I did not get annoyed but said I would have a little time and that I had put off seeing my granddaughter the previous day in order to do this.

You response, I find totally unacceptable and very offensive. It is dismissive of me and my time “Please convey my apology to your grand-daughter” It seems to me you want me to take responsibility for your £520 potential debt while you carry on with your life. And with a bit more humility on your part you would have got your wish. But not now.

I will give you the tools you do the job.

You can make your appeal on the following points

That the contravention did not occur in that the signage was inadequate. You will find all you need to argue this point in the thread by way of the case numbers quoted.

Then a series of collateral challenges under the penalty exceeded etc.

The pcns state that the council may serve a CC at the end of the 28 day period if no payment is made The cannot the correct period is 28 days beginning with the date of service

Schedule 1(5)(1) and(2)(a)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

NEXT that the authority are proscribed from demanding a penalty As the blue bus gate sign (953) is s section 36 traffic sign so any contravention must be against the sign and not the traffic order.
As per section 4(6) of the linked legislation
This case can be used to support your submission on this 2170058483


NEXT that the authority failed to consider your representation You made the above point but nothing was said about it in their rejection

For PCN 2,3 and 4 that as all the PCN's were posted and received the same day you had no indication that you had done anything wrong,until receipt of all 4.Thus 2,3 and 4 should be treated as continuing contraventions if the other points fail

this case supports 2160273606

A few hours of your time should see an appeal that will give you a reasonable chance. But no guarantees

good luck





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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Optima_5123
post Sat, 23 Jun 2018 - 21:12
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 20:34) *
I will give you the tools you do the job.

You can make your appeal on the following points

That the contravention did not occur in that the signage was inadequate. You will find all you need to argue this point in the thread by way of the case numbers quoted.

Then a series of collateral challenges under the penalty exceeded etc.

The pcns state that the council may serve a CC at the end of the 28 day period if no payment is made The cannot the correct period is 28 days beginning with the date of service

Schedule 1(5)(1) and(2)(a)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

NEXT that the authority are proscribed from demanding a penalty As the blue bus gate sign (953) is s section 36 traffic sign so any contravention must be against the sign and not the traffic order.
As per section 4(6) of the linked legislation
This case can be used to support your submission on this 2170058483


NEXT that the authority failed to consider your representation You made the above point but nothing was said about it in their rejection

For PCN 2,3 and 4 that as all the PCN's were posted and received the same day you had no indication that you had done anything wrong,until receipt of all 4.Thus 2,3 and 4 should be treated as continuing contraventions if the other points fail

this case supports 2160273606

A few hours of your time should see an appeal that will give you a reasonable chance. But no guarantees

good luck



What about the council serving the NoRs by Second-Class postage, is it worth including in the appeal?
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