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red route, help
lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 15:18
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Hello

I received a pcn stating contravention code 46. It was on Dry Street in basildon. But there are no Red Lines, No white Lines, In fact no lines of any colour. I could not see any roadside or kerb markings of any description ,There are no signs to indicate parking restrictions. In fact there are no signs of any sort.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thomas
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post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 15:18
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stamfordman
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 15:30
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Post the PCN, council pics and a google street view of location.

Probably a clearway.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 19:33
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lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 16:36
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hello

image 1 is the view behind where i was parked.
image 2 is roughly where i was parked.
image 3 is the view heading to main road from where i was parked.

https://ibb.co/GP9wWM4 is the pcn.
No council pics pcn on windscreen. just a ticket.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 16:51
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stamfordman
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 17:06
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See if any pics are when you log in here:

https://southessex.self-serve.co.uk
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lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 17:24
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image 1
image 2


Yes my vehicle is there.
but the last 2 images of the signs are not where i was parked but further up the road.
the car in the background in image 2 is about where i was parked.
As i came in from the other end i could not have seen them.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 18:07
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stamfordman
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 17:28
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Post the pic of the signs.

Post a live google street view link.

have look along your route for other signs.
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lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 18:15
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these are the 2 signs. the google layout is the 3 images posted earlier.

I never saw any signs in the location where I got the pcn
I was parked on the road and not the pavement or the verge.

Image 1 The small no stopping sign covered by apple blossoms is not where I was parked as the 4 photos of my vehicle show clearly that there are no apple blossoms in view in any of them. so i do not know where that photo was taken.

Image 2 The no stopping sign is at least half a mile further up the road. the car in the background is roughly where i was parked.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 18:24
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 18:37
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Image one does not matter it is a no stopping on verge sign but the no stopping sign is one that does apply to you even half a mile away unless you had past an end of sign


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 19:25
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so what you are saying is a sign that i did not pass or will not pass and cannot see is important. I went 3oo-400 hundred yards on the road and parked because there were no signs what so ever.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 19:34
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Post a live google street view link not a picture.
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lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 20:00
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There is a sign either side of the entrance to frobbing farm close because you enter it from dry street. access to the estate from both ends of Dry Street and both sides have the sign, the placement of the signs is for for the estate entrance, which was on the right as i turned into Dry Street from A176. But they are irrelevant to me as I will not enter the estate. there were no signs on the left hand side as I turned left onto Dry Street and there are no signs at the other end of Dry Street. I went 300-400 hundred yards on the road and parked because there were no signs on that road what so ever left or right side. The only signs were at the estate entrance.


i am not being allowed to put up a live feed.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 20:04
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stamfordman
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 20:04
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here - just follow this to the location. It may be though that it's out of date at the location. In which case if you are sure you did not pass a sign it could help to take some pics.


https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5519258,0.4...3312!8i6656


guidance on clearways on pages 64-65 here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...-chapter-03.pdf

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 20:39
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lou wren
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 22:51
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When I turned into Dry Street from A176 I saw no signs. When i have checked back today there are signs on the opposite side of the road where I tuned in but they look like they are for the estate. I would not be looking right when I am turning left. As the estate appears fairly quick, It is quite possible to miss the signs easily. They say start & end which means they start & end for Dry Street or They start & end coming off the estate. Not sure which. You would notice the signs if you were looking for the estate, as I wasn't I never saw them.

There were vehicles already parked so I thought I could as there were no signs to say I couldn't.
when I checked google maps to see what year it was where I had parked it was (august 2018) there were cars parked where I was.

The other turning onto Dry Street at high street is oct 2012. I saw no signs there.
When The road has no more road markings at the junction with dixon road there is no sign to say it start of a clearway. this section is (august 2018)

My phone is calls and texts. That was my only visit. so unlikely I will be back.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 23:58
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cp8759
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 15:36
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This is a real mess when it comes to signage and I'm not sure whether the A176 is a clearway or not.

forget about the estate, those signs are there to tell you that the estate is not a clearway (and conversely that if you're driving into out of the estate, Dry Street is a clearway).

If you come from the A13, you're told the A176 is not a clearway: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5520447,0.4...3312!8i6656

But if you turn left here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5611919,0.4...3312!8i6656 you're told the A176 is a clearway (the rear of these signs can be seen in the 2018 capture here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.561521,0.45...3312!8i6656)

At this point you really need to show us:

1) All the CEO's pictures, just redact your number plate if it bothers you
2) Both sides of the PCN in full
3) A link to the exact spot where you were parked.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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lou wren
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 14:23
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I did not go up as far as Lee Woottons Lane.
I turned off the A13/stanford le hope bypass onto A176 near Bell Hills Road. Came down The A176 turned into Dry Street. I turned into Dry Street by mistake I meant to turn into the hospital.
I saw no signs or road markings other cars were parked there. so I parked and went on my way.
I will Try and load what you asked for.

I am not being allowed to upload the images.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 14:28
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cp8759
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 15:41
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Upload images to an external site like imgur.com or flickr


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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lou wren
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 19:04
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these are the only images of the car. the 2 signs i have already put up.
https://ibb.co/sy8swkG
https://ibb.co/wJfWpG5
https://ibb.co/1bGTMTr
https://ibb.co/n3jP4Sg

This post has been edited by lou wren: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 19:05
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cp8759
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 10:58
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QUOTE (lou wren @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 15:23) *
I turned off the A13/stanford le hope bypass onto A176 near Bell Hills Road. Came down The A176 turned into Dry Street. I turned into Dry Street by mistake I meant to turn into the hospital.

So I take it your turned left here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5520447,0.4...3312!8i6656

The only question now is this: Did you pass a clearway sign between this point, and the point where you parked? If yes, then you're banged to rights, if no, then you have a winning appeal.

Ideally, we need up to date photos of the location, but if you're sure you didn't pass a sign, you can challenge anyway (It's for the authority to show the signs are there, it is not for you to prove that they're not).


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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lou wren
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 01:16
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That is correct I turned left onto the A176 there and then turned left onto Dry Street from the A176.

I saw NO clearway signs from my turning onto the A176. I obviously saw the large sign for the hospital which is how I happened to turn left at Dry Street.

After I had parked, I must have ignored the speed limit sign as it was irrelevant, as I was parked up even then I never saw any parking restriction signs.

It was only after I got the pcn and I had a look on google maps afterwards and saw the clearway signs at the estate entrance and that was the first time I saw any clearway signs but up until then I never saw any.

The only clearway sign is the one in the photograph which shows cars at some distance off. As I was only a couple of hundred yards along Dry Street from a busy road when I Parked. So I have no idea where the clearway sign could be located.

As one of the photographs clearly shows the back of the car and slightly further on other cars either parked or moving. yet the photograph with the clearway sign the cars are at a greater distance away, than in the photograph of my car and the other cars that were on the same street.

Thanks for the help and advice.

This post has been edited by lou wren: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 01:18
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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 15:45
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Well this sign: https://ibb.co/J3hYRSV is located approximately here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5552186,0.4...3312!8i6656. It's irrelevant to you as you wouldn't have passed it on the route you took. The signs on the estate are equally irrelevant as you didn't drive into (or out of) the estate, so forget about them.

Are you able to go back and check if there's a sign when coming from the A13 / A176 route you actually took? We can draft an appeal for you regardless, but obviously if you can get up to date photos confirming the lack of signs that will make it easier.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 15:46


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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