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PCN 62 - Wrong street name cited on notice
pappyon
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 10:19
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I have been served with a final notice for "62 Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath...".
Unfortunately I didn't notice the first notice because someone must have taken the sticker.

I've uploaded a picture of the notice here: http://oi63.tinypic.com/212v1uf.jpg

However, I've noticed the road name is technically incorrect (I think). The notice says the vehicle was on "X Crescent". Technically it was on Y Road. X Crescent is the name of the wider estate but half of it was knocked down about 5 years ago with new roads and buildings built. One of the new roads was Y Road. On google maps, X Crescent shows up as a different place, round the corner. The address of the building on the road, where I live includes Y Road, and does not include X Crescent.

However, I suppose it could be argued that the road is still on X Crescent.

Do I have a leg to stand on? If so, is there a template for how I should appeal?

Thanks very much for your help!
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post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 10:19
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 10:36
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You have a notice to owner so not the final notice, providing you challenge it we need to see the location a the vehicle was parked and b where it says was parked

post a GSV


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stamfordman
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 10:52
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Yes, we need to see locations.

Also, if PCN had been removed you can at least ask for the discount back.

Post the councils's pics too.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.
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pappyon
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 11:26
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OK thanks so much!

The car was parked here on Murrain Road https://goo.gl/maps/gNhyDRVLRp42

The notice states that the car was in King's Crescent which according to google is here https://goo.gl/maps/T9CSSt2u6QA2

The council pics are here: https://imgur.com/a/ByZdiDi

In pic 4 the building sign says Wallington Court which is on Murrain Road.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:08
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Not great parking was it - asking for trouble with that.

Seems though that you were on a named road that is different form the one on the PCN, which is usually enough to get it cancelled.

We'll come up with some wording for you.

The road at right angles to Murrain doesn't seem to have a name but could be a continuation of King's Crecsent Where exactly on Murrain were you.
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pappyon
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:18
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I know, but there are no parking spots and we had just come back from our honeymoon so had been unloading stuff. Not a good excuse I know and I've definitely learnt my lesson!

The car was parked here https://i.imgur.com/SzMMIgZ.jpg

This is just behind the green hoarding, just round the corner from the road that leads up to Murrain Road. So on Murrain Road, opposite "Wallington Court". This image is taken from google maps "3D".

Thanks again!
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DancingDad
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:18
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Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ????
I was surprised to receive the Notice to Owner as no PCN had been found on my vehicle.
Your Notice to Owner alleges that my vehicle was parked in Kings Crescent.
I cannot resolve this with the evidence photos that you CEO took.
I can see from the photos that the alleged contravention was opposite Wallingford House.
The postal address for this is Murrain Road.
Given this, the contravention cannot have occurred where cited and the PCN cannot be upheld.
I look forward to your confirmation of this.
Hugs and Kisses.

Not relevant but 'effing 'ell mate, that is a really pee poor piece of parking, many councils would have been calling for the removal truck.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:21
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Loading is an exemption but for a code 62 rules are very strict.
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pappyon
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:25
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That's great thanks!

>Not relevant but 'effing 'ell mate, that is a really pee poor piece of parking, many councils would have been calling for the removal truck.

I know! But in my defence it is one of those estates where everyone seems to do it and no one seems to get caught. You can see from the satellite photos that there are a load of other cars parked on that pavement https://i.imgur.com/SzMMIgZ.jpg. There's nowhere else to park close to the building so my usual method was to park it there late at night and move it in the morning. Lesson learned.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:42
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That you were blocking a pedestrian dropped kerb is IMO why the PCN was served even if the local CEOs habitually ignore footway parking.
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DastardlyDick
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 15:08
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I can see this one going to Adjudication - that's on the corner, so IMO, it could be either road!
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DancingDad
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 16:32
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 16:08) *
I can see this one going to Adjudication - that's on the corner, so IMO, it could be either road!

Except that the road around the corner seems to be called Datchworth Court.
And Kings Crescent is totally the other end of Murrain and across another road.
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pappyon
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 08:19
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Just to update, I have received my notice of rejection of representations back from the council.

They didn't address the fact that the original notice had the wrong details, but instead said "It is unfortunate that you were unfamiliar with the rules that were in force."

I suppose I have nothing to lose by appealing at this stage to the Independent Adjudicator!

Edit: I'm also worried I may have to pay costs to the Adjudicator. Does this happen?

This post has been edited by pappyon: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 08:37
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John U.K.
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 10:06
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QUOTE
Edit: I'm also worried I may have to pay costs to the Adjudicator. Does this happen?


In practice, no.
In theory, if your appeal were deemed frivolous or vexatious. The bar is very high. Don't worry.

QUOTE
They didn't address the fact that the original notice had the wrong details, but instead said "It is unfortunate that you were unfamiliar with the rules that were in force."


So you have "Failure to consider" to add to your appeal to the Adj.

Please post here a copy of all sides of the NoRR and of what you wrote to them.

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pappyon
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:40
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OK that's really helpful thanks.

Here is what I sent in:

Dear Sirs
I was surprised to receive the Notice to Owner as no PCN had been found on my vehicle.
Your Notice to Owner alleges that my vehicle was parked in Kings Crescent.
I cannot resolve this with the evidence photos that your CEO took.
I can see from the photos that the alleged contravention was opposite Wallington Court.
The postal address for this is Murrain Road.
Given this, the contravention cannot have occurred where cited and the PCN cannot be upheld.
I look forward to your confirmation of this.
Thank you.

Here is what I received back:

https://i.imgur.com/ezlsMft.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XrecKD8.jpg?2
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stamfordman
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 14:18
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Complete failure to consider. Nothing to lose now by going to tribunal.
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cp8759
post Thu, 16 May 2019 - 11:18
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It's a complete boilerplate response so they've failed to consider, that's a procedural impropriety.

Put a draft of your appeal on here before submitting.


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hcandersen
post Thu, 16 May 2019 - 11:55
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I know, but there are no parking spots and we had just come back from our honeymoon so had been unloading stuff.

or

But in my defence it is one of those estates where everyone seems to do it and no one seems to get caught. You can see from the satellite photos that there are a load of other cars parked on that pavement https://i.imgur.com/SzMMIgZ.jpg. There's nowhere else to park close to the building so my usual method was to park it there late at night and move it in the morning


Totally at odds with each other.

Which version would you want an adjudicator to believe?

It's unlawful at any time!

As regards location, 'opp Wallington Court' is correct, but the road isn't?

Normally the wrong road would be sufficient to win, but this is because most contraventions are underpinned by a traffic order, but it doesn't apply here, this is a statutory prohibition.

The location is not a prescribed item in a NTO, but comes under the broader heading of: e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer who served the penalty charge notice under regulation 9 believed that a penalty charge was payable with respect to the vehicle;

So, given that this is such a poor piece of (habitual) parking - but luckily the adjudicator won't know the habitual part- IMO you are behind the curve on this. If you appeal, then make it good and do not start with what you consider the authority has got wrong, start with what you got wrong and for which you apologise and which you could understand giving rise to a PCN being issued, however.........and then identify the procedural errors.




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pappyon
post Sat, 18 May 2019 - 15:53
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Oh... you think I should admit that I was parked there illegally?

Per the other comments I was going to select the option: "There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the Enforcement Authority" for grounds for appeal.

Submit the photo of the car in front of Wallington Court, and a screenshot of google maps showing how far Wallington Court is from King's Crescent.

I was going to write:
"
I wish to appeal on the grounds of procedural impropriety. As the evidence I've submitted shows, the photos taken by the CEO show that the vehicle was parked in front of Wallington Court, on Murrain Road. However, the Notice to Owner alleges that the vehicle was parked in Kings Crescent, which as the screenshot I also submitted shows, is a distance away from Wallington Court.

The Notice of Rejection entirely failed to consider this reason to appeal the PCN.

Thank you for your time,

XXXX
"

Thanks again to all for your continued advice!
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hcandersen
post Sat, 18 May 2019 - 16:40
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Parking as you did is b*****y irresponsible and jeopardises public safety and can be seen clearly in the photos.

So yes, I would start with I regret.....or words to this effect.

IMO, if you don't and if the adj infers no understanding on your part of what you did wrong, let alone an apology, then this must lessen your chances of success.

You were parked unlawfully, so there's no point trying to fudge this. However, this has no bearing on the consequent improprieties of the authority which they are not prepared to acknowledge, unlike you.








This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sun, 19 May 2019 - 16:36
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