BUS LANE PCN 34J HELP |
BUS LANE PCN 34J HELP |
Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:46
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 23 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,740 |
Hi
im new to this forum and glad i found it . so i received today a PCN bus lane penalty.i have uploaded the letter and a screen shot of the bus lane question . in the screen shot you can see the camera that caught me , which is at the end of the bus lane of which is approx at a guess 600 yards long . i only entered the bus lane just before the designated arrow painted on the road as i was turning left .you can clearly see the position of my car more to the middle of the road which show i have just entered the lane and not 500 yards previously .Yes i understand that i have entered the bus lane ,but i was only 5 meters away from the designated area to merge into the left lane to turn left , of which the left turn is maybe only 15m further on . i find this very harsh . ,would this warrant an appeal ? if so whats the best way to do this .im not that great at writing letters as you can most probably guess from this . i got issued this on the 22nd and really want to appeal if i can soon so the fine does not go up to the next stage. Any help will be much appreciated great forum Martin [/img][/img][/img][/img] |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:46
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:59
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Yes it is harsh, because venal and rapacious councils like Leeds like the "nice little earner" of people paying PCN penalty charges, and will issue PCNs for the most trivial of trivial contraventions, and there is nobody to stop them doing it, only you appealing all the way to adjudicators to decide one way or the other. As doing this is a double-or-quits gamble, not many people appeal and just cough-up the discounted amoount which then acts to reinforce the councils in their zeal to get the money in. Out of every 100 bus lane PCN photos we see on here, probably only one has a bus anywhere in it ! The bus lanes essentially are a money-making device, but the law ain't going to change any time soon.
Anyway, if you are going to appeal this you really need to see the video. The Traffic Penalty Tribunal have an unofficial 20 metre rule on bus lanes which tends to cover most cases where people move across to turn left too early. If you reckon you are within that distance then appeal all the way, as it comes under the well-established legal principal of "de minimis" (de minimis non curat lex), i.e the law does not concern itself with trifling offences. HOwever be aware that there is no guarantee you'll win your case, but the more homework you do to show it is de minimis, the more likely it is you'll win. |
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Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 00:46
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#3
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Views needed on this one please.
I haven't worked this out in detail but I thought bus lane enforcement could only apply to those areas where Leeds had permission under the Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area approvals. The M621 is definitely not in the Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area as per:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/95/article/3/made The Bus Lane Contraventions (Approved Local Authorities) (England) (Amendment) Order 2010 states:- 3. Each authority listed in column (1) of Schedule 2 to this Order, whose area is wholly or partially designated by order as a civil enforcement area for parking contraventions under paragraph 8(1) of Schedule 8 to the Traffic Management Act 2004(2), of which the reference number is given in column (2) of Schedule 2, is an approved local authority for the purposes of section 144 of the Transport Act 2000 (civil penalties for bus lane contraventions). Does this mean any local authority which has permitted and special parking areas can enforce bus lane regardless? Or, are they constrained by the area quoted in permitted and special parking area permissions? Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 01:10 |
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Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 09:32
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
@MMV
Original Bus Lane permissions for Leeds came from Approved local authorities order 2005 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2755/contents/made That certainly links to the Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area approvals and that does exclude M61. But there is a whole raft of amendments to the 2005 order which I haven't been through and may amend the area. Certainly worth asking Leeds for the relevant order(s) that include the M61 as a permitted area for bus lane enforcement. For OP, the stills suggest a minimal intrusion into the bus lane for the purpose of turning left. And would suggest de minimus, ie too trivial for the law to bother with. But get the video and confirm, that ultimately is what an adjudicator will base any decision on regards the contravention This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 09:34 |
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Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 09:47
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#5
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Thanks for that DD, I was intrigued by having a bus lane on a motorway
A bit more research shows:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/27...gulation/3/made Says (my bold):- The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005 Penalty charges 3.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and regulation 4, an approved local authority may impose a penalty charge in respect of a contravention relating to any road within their area, except a road which is a special road in accordance with section 16 of the Highways Act 1980(1). I would contend that "within their area" means that detailed for the Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area also that the Sect 16 exception must relate to the M621 because it was a scheme confirmed by the Secretary of State (Leeds South-West Urban Motorway M621) in December 1973--i.e. a Special Road (Hansard 1973 vol 866 cc395-402W). I agree the question needs to be put to Leeds. Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 10:23 |
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Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 10:39
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Apart from the technical issues highlighted by MMV, I would certainly appeal this on what is probably 'de minimis'. At most you are risking another £30 to take this to the tribunal. You do need to see the video.
This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 11:02 |
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