[NIP Wizard] Rather complicated SJP? Options

[underpressuredri...]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2019
Date of the NIP: - 77 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 78 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M6 Motorway Southbound
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Hi peeps
I've received a SJP notice relating to exceeding 70mph on the motorway and initially failing to stop. I'm here because I don't know what to do.
Top and tail of it was my other half and I had a row that I thought was the final straw in our relationship. I left the house after he destroyed my phone and macbook in a rage. We had been to a local pub much earlier that evening (I left the house at 1am). He threatened to call the police and was on the phone when I left but I wasn't sure if he was bluffing. I didn't think I was over the limit, although to be honest I really wasn't thinking clearly as we have had a long relationship, four children and I genuinely thought my life as I knew it was over. He had been off work for a year and I thought I'd been supporting him but increasingly, his behaviour was intolerable. I'm not saying that I am completely blameless, there are definitely two sides to every row, however...back to the driving. I set off and didn't register that I was driving too fast, almost 100mph. The roads were quiet and familiar and my speed crept up as I was escaping. I accept full culpability for that. A vehicle did overtake me and asked me to pull over, but I didn't think that the request was aimed at me, so I simply slowed down and carried on. Next thing I knew, I was stopped by three cars in that blocking manoeuvre. I was very scared and it seemed surreal. I was arrested for suspected drink driving and taken to a custody centre. The arresting police officer noticed that my car was packed with all my belongings and was made aware of the damage to my computer and phone. At the centre I did not register as over the limit and the officers were incredibly sympathetic and offered my advice on being in emotionally abusive relationships before letting me go. I was advised that I had been caught over the speeding limit and would probably receive a court notice. I've got a SJP. One officer, who had little contact with me has submitted a witness statement. It details being caught speeding, resisting the initial request to pull over, breathalyzed at the side of the road, taken to the custody centre, then being released without a drink driving charge.
I can't really describe my emotions writing this down, it seems so alien to who I am and how I live, I'm a charity worker who raises money for end of life care...I don't break the law. Anyway, that doesn't matter. What I'd like to know is do I plead guilty and offer mitigation or...do I plead not guilty and request a court hearing with a view to explaining my circumstances? The SJP states that there is a further police witness who can give evidence of the circumstances of the offences, only to be provided by the entry of a not guilty plea. I'm not sure what to do. I do want to pay my due, I don't want to lose my license and independence.
I did return to my family home and I'm trying to make my marriage work.
Any driving charge related advice? Guilty with mitigation or court? Help?

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 10:06:37 +0000

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[The Rookie]

Because that is the maximum, it’s means tested, there is a limit for first time offenders and there is a discount for a guilty plea.

All told it’s not going anywhere near £5k.

[666]

Aah, so not relevant in this case then as the other charge isn't endorseable.

Just so.

You are missing the end game. The CPS are going to throw all their arsenals at this lady. So let's focus on damage limitation and focus on does she have a possible defence for failing to stop. Nobody can say NO because we don't know all the details.

You don’t throw arsenals. If you did, your enemy would have all your guns and ammunition.

[NewJudge]

The failing to stop can carry a maximum penalty of 5K.

Except she’s not going to be fined £5k, is she?

Why not

Actually the statutory maximum for the offence is "Level 5 on the standard scale". Since March 2015 Level 5 has been an unlimited fine. However, the guideline Starting Point is "Band B" which is a week's net income. So, even if the OP is earning £100k pa (approximately £2,000 pw) the fine with a guilty plea would be would be £1,333. Assuming a guilty plea, somebody earning £30k pa would face a fine of around £380.The defendant would have to be earning £390k pa before a fine of £5,000 would be contemplated.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 23:03

[Mayhem007]

I've got a SJP. One officer, who had little contact with me has submitted a witness statement. It details being caught speeding, resisting the initial request to pull over, breathalyzed at the side of the road, taken to the custody centre, then being released without a drink driving charge.

The SJP states that there is a further police witness who can give evidence of the circumstances of the offences, only to be provided by the entry of a not guilty plea.

From the description from the above there must of been 2 police officers in the initial pursuit car. Otherwise the witness statement is hearsay. The other witness has evidence to the circumstance of the offences.

I would love to hear more details of the initial request to pull over. The fact that she slowed down shows that she wasn't trying to evade capture. So what actually happened. Is there a possible defence.
Good news that the maximum fine is likely to be £380 for failing to stop.

[NewJudge]

Good news that the maximum fine is likely to be £380 for failing to stop.

Sorry to mislead, but that was only an example I quoted (for a defendant earning £30k pa). We don't know the OP's income.

[BQ68]

I've got a SJP. One officer, who had little contact with me has submitted a witness statement. It details being caught speeding, resisting the initial request to pull over, breathalyzed at the side of the road, taken to the custody centre, then being released without a drink driving charge.

The SJP states that there is a further police witness who can give evidence of the circumstances of the offences, only to be provided by the entry of a not guilty plea.

From the description from the above there must of been 2 police officers in the initial pursuit car. Otherwise the witness statement is hearsay. The other witness has evidence to the circumstance of the offences.

I would love to hear more details of the initial request to pull over. The fact that she slowed down shows that she wasn't trying to evade capture. So what actually happened. Is there a possible defence.
Good news that the maximum fine is likely to be £380 for failing to stop.

Hearsay?! It was a motorway so no corroboration required, even if it was a standard road then it wouldn't be hearsay. Slowing down is not stopping - you can still have an active pursuit at walking pace. Based on the tactics used, it's likely that this was somewhat of a prolonged pursuit and I suspect many marked vehicles were in use. If there was sufficient concern for the authenticity of the officers instructing the vehicle to stop then surely a call to 999 could resolve it?

[southpaw82]

Hearsay?!

Do you know what hearsay is?

It was a motorway so no corroboration required

Considering we’re (now) talking about failure to stop, is that an offence that requires corroboration?

even if it was a standard road then it wouldn't be hearsay.

What is the relevance of the road to whether evidence is hearsay?

[BQ68]

Hearsay?!

Do you know what hearsay is?

It was a motorway so no corroboration required

Considering we’re (now) talking about failure to stop, is that an offence that requires corroboration?

even if it was a standard road then it wouldn't be hearsay.

What is the relevance of the road to whether evidence is hearsay?

I was referring to Mayhem007's remark, I assumed referring to the speeding matter, perhaps you would rather comment on that?

"From the description from the above there must of been 2 police officers in the initial pursuit car. Otherwise the witness statement is hearsay. The other witness has evidence to the circumstance of the offences."

[andy_foster]

Presumably Mayhem is under the misapprehension that Cheshire is in Scotland.

[southpaw82]

I was referring to Mayhem007's remark, I assumed referring to the speeding matter, perhaps you would rather comment on that?

"From the description from the above there must of been 2 police officers in the initial pursuit car. Otherwise the witness statement is hearsay. The other witness has evidence to the circumstance of the offences."

I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been going on about the failing to stop - there seems to be no question of challenging the speeding matter.

However, even if we were discussing speeding, your comment about a standard road and hearsay still makes no sense whatsoever.

Presumably Mayhem is under the misapprehension that Cheshire is in Scotland.

So far as I can work out, it has been suggested that there is another officer who can provide a witness statement. Mayhem appears to be saying that said officer must have been present so as to be able to give direct evidence, otherwise their statement would be hearsay. Leaving aside that all witness statements are hearsay if used to prove the truth of their contents, it seems to be that said officer's evidence would otherwise be hearsay. Consequently, there appears to be a second officer who can give evidence as to the circumstances of the offence(s). How far that assists the OP I'm not sure.

[Mayhem007]

So far as I can work out, it has been suggested that there is another officer who can provide a witness statement. Mayhem appears to be saying that said officer must have been present so as to be able to give direct evidence, otherwise their statement would be hearsay. Leaving aside that all witness statements are hearsay if used to prove the truth of their contents, it seems to be that said officer's evidence would otherwise be hearsay. Consequently, there appears to be a second officer who can give evidence as to the circumstances of the offence(s). How far that assists the OP I'm not sure.

Spot on Southpaw. I was intrigued by the OP's comment that she had been given the witness statement by a police officer that had very little to do with alleged offender. And that their was a second police officer's statement that had been withheld, which they are entitled to do.

I was hoping that the OP could divulge details of the failing to stop, as members on this forum may be able to assist in mitigation for the SJP or court appearance. Also, if this does go to court, then we could all offer advice on her presentation to the court.

Also, are the police allowed to provide evidence by the second police officer at SJP without the OP seeing the evidence, even if she does plead guilty.

This post has been edited by Mayhem007: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 - 11:13

[NewJudge]

If she pleads guilty no evidence will be provided to the court at all. If the case is dealt with via the SJP a simple statement of the facts will be provided, if it is dealt with at a normal hearing the prosecutor will relate the facts to the court verbally. I would suggest that the facts alleged should tie up with the evidence that would be used in the event of a trial following a NG plea. But the only way the defendant can be sure of that is to ask for a hearing and attend. If the facts alleged are then disputed the court will decide whether a Newton Hearing is necessary.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 - 17:17

[underpressuredri...]

I've got a SJP. One officer, who had little contact with me has submitted a witness statement. It details being caught speeding, resisting the initial request to pull over, breathalyzed at the side of the road, taken to the custody centre, then being released without a drink driving charge.

The SJP states that there is a further police witness who can give evidence of the circumstances of the offences, only to be provided by the entry of a not guilty plea.

From the description from the above there must of been 2 police officers in the initial pursuit car. Otherwise the witness statement is hearsay. The other witness has evidence to the circumstance of the offences.

I would love to hear more details of the initial request to pull over. The fact that she slowed down shows that she wasn't trying to evade capture. So what actually happened. Is there a possible defence.
Good news that the maximum fine is likely to be £380 for failing to stop.

Hello again, not had the chance to log on for a week.
The police were alerted by my husband when I threatened to leave, not our finest moment. I packed the car and left, he called them but I thought he was bluffing or to be honest, he's smashed my computer and phone to bits so I was leaving anyway. And so they came looking.
The motorway was very quiet and I'm used to the route, it's my commute and usually I average 20mph in rush hour. I did get close to 100. An unmarked car with lights approached, I thought there was a problem ahead, pulled to the first lane and slowed to 62mph. A 'follow me' light came on and I was confused but genuinely thought it was directed at another vehicle. Then I continued at 62mph. Shortly afterwards three marked cars followed me for possibly 5 mins, not sure, lights flashing, I slowed again, expecting them to overtake and deal with the problem up ahead, never thinking that I was their problem.

The pulled me over, breath test at the side of the road was borderline and I explained I'd had a glass of wine hours ago, but not eaten and felt scared due to my husband's behaviour. They saw the car was packed with all my belongings, I said I was going to my mum's in the midlands.

The police officers with me were lovely. I didn't fail the test at the station, it was below the statutory limit and I was not charged, the statement says the accusing officer was informed that I'd provided a positive sample at roadside but no figure is given. At the time I was told that this was inconclusive, they were actually trying to reassure me.

I am a charity fundraiser for people with life limiting illnesses, I earn 30K, just...I'm helping to support two daughters through University.

Do I go to court, or write a response?

I need my car for fundraising and for visiting my girls, I'm very sorry and this is completely out of character.