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PCN 46. Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Double red line, stopped for 15 seconds behind stationary coach
VFR800
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 17:06
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Hi all,

Was riding my (motor)bike down Grosvenor Place in London, on a TFL red route with double red lines. Of course, I know you aren't supposed to stop there unless traffic is stationary, . So, there was heavy, slow-moving traffic and I saw the road widening to the left. I imagined it was a left-turn lane. Since I was planning to turn left at the end of the road I duly entered the lane. There was a coach about 20 yards in front of me, I stopped a few feet behind it.

After a few seconds, I saw that the traffic to my right was moving faster than I was so I rejoined it. Lo and behold, I then saw that I'd been stopped behind a coach parked in a lay-by.

Five days later, received a PCN with two photos of me stationary behind the bus, in the middle of the lane so clearly not parking, separated by 13.2 seconds.

I phoned a polite lady at the helpline, who said she'd send prints. She also said the white line at right angles to me across the lane should have alerted me to the fact of it being a coach stop.

I went back to the scene with my camera and saw firstly there was no sign saying either bus stand or bus stop, only no stopping except buses and coaches. Secondly, detailed examination showed there is no white line painted on the road at right angles, anywhere, certainly not where I had stopped.

Summing up, I was stuck in stop-start traffic, and when the road opened a new lane to my left, drove down the lane to behind a stopped coach where I stayed a very short time until I realised it wasn't going anywhere, and I quickly rejoined traffic. I think the photos show pretty clearly that I wasn't actually parked, did not get off my bike and was nowhere near the kerb, but was just in the middle lane as if driving.

So, what argument should I give? Should I tell the truth as above, or would it be better to say I thought I had an emergency like a flat tyre?

Is there any significance to the white line which apprears in the TFL traffic cam shots, but not in the pics I took a few days later? Could that help?

Anyway, many thanks for any advice. I have about 5 days left to lodge an appeal.

Peter

Here are the photos, sorry I don't know how to make them open up in the post, you have to click them:
TFL traffic cam shots www.planapo.com/Pepipoo/img20190825_17194717.jpg
My own pics: www.planapo.com/Pepipoo/DSC_2288a.jpg and www.planapo.com/Pepipoo/DSC_2302a.jpg
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post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 17:06
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mickR
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 17:47
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QUOTE (VFR800 @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 18:06) *
So, what argument should I give? Should I tell the truth as above, or would it be better to say I thought I had an emergency like a flat tyre?


That woukd be a VERY BAD idea. Not to say obviuosly a blatantly lie just by viewing the pics!
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 18:02
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We will never help or advise that you tell lies. But you need to post up the PCN a GSV and get and post the video


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VFR800
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 19:11
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Thanks guys, no I didn't really think telling fibs would be the answer, and especially since I honestly thought I was doing the correct thing in using the "left lane" (i.e. what turned out to be the coach stop).

I attach the PCN, but I'm sorry I don't know what a GSV is.

I also had no idea there was a video, I imagined they were just snapping pics. I'll ask on Tuesday, if they'll suspend the deadline until I get it. What would the video show over and above the stills? Perhaps that I didn't hang around more than 13 seconds?

Thanks,
Peter
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Longtime Lurker
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 20:46
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GSV stands for Google Street View. Find the location and post the link here so we can look round for signs and check the road markings
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cp8759
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 17:07
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Call TFL and ask for the video, they will put the penalty on hold and send you a DVD in the post.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 19:11
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https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4997471,-...6384!8i8192


GSV does not support your narrative and I cannot see an adjudicator going for it but lets see the video


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VFR800
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 19:18
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I've asked for the video and they've put the PCN on hold for 14 days. How would I post it here? It's fairly sure to be bigger than the 1.05MB I'm still permitted.

@PASTMYBEST, yes that GSV link is the place all right, but can you say why it does not support my narrative? Bearing in mind the lanes were chock full of traffic not empty like GSV. That GSV coach is stopped in the same place as the one I stopped behind, and with the traffic I couldn't see the the lay-by was not in fact a left lane.
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cp8759
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 20:50
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QUOTE (VFR800 @ Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 20:18) *
I've asked for the video and they've put the PCN on hold for 14 days. How would I post it here? It's fairly sure to be bigger than the 1.05MB I'm still permitted.

Just put it on youtube or vimeo or similar and post a link.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 20:55
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QUOTE (VFR800 @ Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 20:18) *
I've asked for the video and they've put the PCN on hold for 14 days. How would I post it here? It's fairly sure to be bigger than the 1.05MB I'm still permitted.

@PASTMYBEST, yes that GSV link is the place all right, but can you say why it does not support my narrative? Bearing in mind the lanes were chock full of traffic not empty like GSV. That GSV coach is stopped in the same place as the one I stopped behind, and with the traffic I couldn't see the the lay-by was not in fact a left lane.



The bay markings on the road and the upright sign.


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VFR800
post Sun, 1 Sep 2019 - 18:55
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The upright road sign just says Red Route... No stopping at any time... Except buses pick up or set down only.

It doesn't seem to prohibit other vehicles from entering the bay as long as they don't stop (I couldn't see the end past the parked bus so didn't know it was a bay).

Besides, the sign is masked by a tree immediately in front of it, from all positions on the approach. I went there yesterday and took the attached photos.
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cp8759
post Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 10:59
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Until we see the video we can't really add much.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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VFR800
post Fri, 4 Oct 2019 - 13:24
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Good News. PCN cancelled. Cancellation letter attached.

I pointed out that the No Stopping sign right at the start of the bay was obscured by a leafy tree (supported by photos, which I went back to the scene to take), contrary to Traffic Signs guidelines. Did the trick.

Thanks everyone, safe driving/parking...

Peter

This post has been edited by VFR800: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 - 13:31
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