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Dagenham & Barking Council - Disabled Parking Bay PCN
Bobby243
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:19
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Hi all,

I received a PCN for parking in a disabled bay on 24/11/2019.

The details:

I recently moved to Dagenham in late September and there happens to be a disabled parking bay directly outside my house (no one else is closer - just to give you an idea of how close it is). Now, my wife actually has a disabled blue badge so it is quite convenient that the disabled parking bay is just outside as it allows us to park and allows my wife to walk the minimal distance to the house.

In Dagenham, they advise you do not need a resident parking permit if you have a blue badge, which we do. As my wife is a holder, we have been using the blue badge to park outside our home since we moved with no issues.

On 24/11/2019, I received a PCN for parking in the bay. Unfortunately, the blue badge had fallen (not sure how) on the side of the passenger chair so understandably the ticket officer could not see the badge and issues a ticket.

I challenged the ticket immediately. All I was told was that I would receive a letter in the post regarding the outcome of my challenge - there was no email to notify my challenge had been received but I assumed it was.

In my challenge I simply stated the above and also provided evidence that my wife has a blue badge along with proof of address to show we literally live next to the parking bay.

Two weeks later (04/11/19), I contacted the council via an online form saying I haven't heard anything and the next day was told that they are dealing with it and will hear back via post or email, so I left it at that.

Yesterday (28/11/10), I contacted the council again via the online form as I had not received any letter. I received an email today saying a letter was sent on 06/11/19 and that my challenge has been rejected and I have until today to pay the reduced rate.

Now, I have received no letter at my current address (this was provided in the challenge) nor my old address (not sure why it would go here).

What are my options? Do I have a case? I still park in the disabled bay and have had no issues.

Thanks for any help.
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Bobby243
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 13:09
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Hi all,

I received a copy of my challenge:

My wife and I moved to Dagenham in September where the disabled parking spot is right outside our house. Coincidentally, my wife is a holder of a disability blue badge and as such have been using the disabled parking spot since we have moved in. If there were any issues before, we would have gotten a PCN much earlier.



For unknown reasons, the blue badge was not in view of the windshield but had fallen - I was sure to have displayed it but cannot explain why it was not in view. I apologies profusely for this and understand if the civil enforcement officer can't see a blue badge, they have no choice but to issue a ticket.



We are using the disabled parking spot legitimately and hope this can be understood. For my supporting evidence, I will be providing a copy of my wife's blue badge and a bank statement with her address on it. This can also be verified through the email I'm using for this ticket as this is the same email used for my LBBD account for which I pay council tax - both my wife and I should be listed as living at ------.


Interestingly, I also received a copy of my rejection letter today through the post at my Dagenham address. Not sure if this is a copy resent or the original.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:10
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Did you attach the evidence with the challenge?
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Bobby243
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 16:28
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:10) *
Did you attach the evidence with the challenge?


Yep
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Bobby243
post Sun, 22 Dec 2019 - 22:00
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Hi guys,

I have not received an NTO yet and my fine is still £65 online despite 14 days passing - just mentioning.

I have been browsing other posts and noticed this: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=131995

I don't quite understand it but there are posts that describe how the back of the PCN is missing mandatory information - my PCN shows the same information on the back as the one posted in the link above.

I wonder if the same argument is applicable and if it can help dismiss the ticket?

Will chase up regarding the NTO to avoid any misses.
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Bobby243
post Mon, 23 Dec 2019 - 13:04
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Any thoughts on above?
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cp8759
post Mon, 23 Dec 2019 - 18:05
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Your PCN has the same flaw but no council ever accepts that its PCN template is wrong, so that would only succeed at the tribunal. I really wouldn't chase the NtO, if you're really lucky and the six month deadline expires without one being issued you won't have to do anything else.


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stamfordman
post Mon, 23 Dec 2019 - 19:08
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Yes don't chase the NTO. Without reading back - is the V5C correctly addressed?
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Bobby243
post Mon, 23 Dec 2019 - 20:08
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 23 Dec 2019 - 19:08) *
Yes don't chase the NTO. Without reading back - is the V5C correctly addressed?


It's still at my previous address. I recall someone in this thread saying it was fine to keep it the way it is as long as I still have easy access (which I do given it is a family home) and my current address is not permanent though do correct me if I'm wrong.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 23 Dec 2019 - 18:05) *
Your PCN has the same flaw but no council ever accepts that its PCN template is wrong, so that would only succeed at the tribunal. I really wouldn't chase the NtO, if you're really lucky and the six month deadline expires without one being issued you won't have to do anything else.


Unfortunately I've already chased up as earlier posts suggested to make sure the NTO doesn't go missing (post 22) (haven't had any reply yet). I won't chase up any further but it is something that is at the back of my mind and I would like to get it sorted - with the few things mentioned, I feel confident (maybe I'm wrong to) that the PCN will be cancelled.
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Bobby243
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 20:03
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Hi all,

So I received the NTO.

Quick recap:
  • blue badge at the side of the chair
  • bay directly outside our home and use as our main parking spot
  • pcn does not contain mandatory terms
  • 24/7 disabled bay and SYL conflict

What are my next steps? Thanks!

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cp8759
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 23:05
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Draft a representation based on the advice given and put it on here for review, one of us will tidy it up for you.


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Bobby243
post Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 22:32
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Here is my draft, please rip it apart:

I am challenging the PCN due to the following:

1) The location of the disabled bay of the contravention is directly outside the house my wife and I live in and have been using the disabled bay since we moved in as my wife is a blue badge holder. Due to the proximity and convenience, we are the main users of this bay. If we were using this bay incorrectly/illegitimately, we would have been given a ticket much sooner.

2) The PCN appears to be non-compliant because it fails to inform the recipient that if representations are submitted but the authority issue an NTO anyway then the recipient must respond as required and not await the authority's written response to prior representations. The authority will find this provision at regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of the General Regulations. This omission represents a procedural impropriety and grounds for cancellation of the PCN.

3) There is a single yellow line covering the same length of road as the disabled bay. Since a yellow line means no waiting on that side of the road, there cannot be an area permitting parking but there is a 24/7 disabled parking bay. It is unknown which is unlawful and possibly both are in which case a contravention did not occur because there is no restriction to contravene.

I apologise that in this case the badge was not in view (it was on the side of the chair). I hope my reasons, the omission of the mandatory regulation (which represents a procedural impropriety, and the single yellow line and disable bay conflict are grounds for cancellation.

Should the council not cancel for any of the above reasons, the response must deal with the impropriety in detail and specify what wording in the PCN in their opinion conveys the requirement of the General Regulations referred to above. The response must also include clarity surrounding the issue surrounding the single yellow line and disabled bay and why there is no conflict.


Really appreciate all the help, thanks in advance.
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 01:32
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Actually most of what you need is in your opening post. He's a new version for you, keep the italics formatting exactly as I've used it below.

----------

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I moved to Dagenham in late September and there happens to be a disabled parking bay directly outside my house, my wife actually has a disabled blue badge so it is quite convenient that the disabled parking bay is just outside as it allows us to park and allows my wife to walk the minimal distance to the house. In Dagenham, they advise you do not need a resident parking permit if you have a blue badge, which we do. As my wife is a holder, we have been using the blue badge to park outside our home since we moved with no issues.

On 24 November I received a PCN for parking in the bay because unfortunately, the blue badge had fallen (not sure how) on the side of the passenger chair, so understandably the ticket officer could not see the badge and issues a ticket.

Please find enclosed a copy of the blue badge for your records. While the contravention clearly occurred, I understand the council has a power of discretion and I note the mitigation guidance at modgov.lbbd.gov.uk/internet/documents/s57863/Parking%20Policy%20-%20Annex%201%20Cancellation%20Policy.pdf states on page 22 that a PCN will be waived for a first contravention in these circumstances:

If it can be established that this is the motorist’s first contravention of this type
and they can provide evidence that they are a Blue badge holder or were
transporting a Blue Badge holder


I therefore invite the council to exercise discretion to cancel the PCN. We will of course be a lot more careful in future to ensure that the blue badge is properly displayed at all times.


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Bobby243
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 13:58
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Thanks cp8759, I will use the exact wording you have provided and will post back on their response.

Edit:

What option should I pick for my reason of representation?


A - The alleged Contravention did not occur
B I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of contravention
- I had sold the vehicle before that date
- I had bought the vehicle after that date
- I have never owned that vehicle
C - The vehicle was taken without my consent
D - We are a hire firm and have supplied details
E - The Penalty Charge exceeds the relevant amount
F - There has been a procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority
G - The traffic order contravened is invalid
H - The Notice should not have been served because the Penalty Charge had already been paid
I - Other

Just going to pick other lol

This post has been edited by Bobby243: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 14:08
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 21:57
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Other is the correct one.


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Bobby243
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 19:04
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This has finally come to an end.

The council have cancelled the PCN on the basis that it was my first contravention.

Thanks everyone for all the help. I've learnt a lot here and will probably browse through and hopefully even contribute!

Thanks again all
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chickofallchicks
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 19:07
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brilliant! so pleased for you smile.gif
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stamfordman
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 23:25
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Good. Once I'd found the policy it was just a matter of time but a shame they put people through this. I would write a letter of complaint to the head of parking copied to the CEO.
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Bobby243
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 23:16
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What would I say? I'm happy to do it but I wonder what you think their response would be. The way I see it, the council are in a position to reject every informal representation and will make money on at least some of the invalid or silly PCNs - there probably needs to be change at a higher level (maybe regulations). Maybe I'm talking nonsense.
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