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[NIP Wizard] Mersey Gateway Bridge Northbound
sjSimon
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 00:42
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2019
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Mersey Gateway Bridge Northbound
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Spouse of owner
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Travelling from Llandudno to Salford and during the course of the journey took this toll road. I was not familiar with the road but did notice it said toll road but assumed there would be a toll booth to collect money if there was any charge to be paid, which I then assumed was for people turning off the road further down.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 00:42:06 +0000
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post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 00:42
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sjSimon
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 00:58
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https://ibb.co/yg5C8Wf
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The Rookie
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 01:17
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So do you have a NIP or a penalty charge notice (as seems more likely)?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Fredd
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 08:38
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 02:17) *
So do you have a NIP or a penalty charge notice (as seems more likely)?

If you click on that link all becomes clear.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 08:46
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 08:38) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 02:17) *
So do you have a NIP or a penalty charge notice (as seems more likely)?

If you click on that link all becomes clear.

It would if it was visible through my Co. firewall!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Incandescent
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 08:46
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OP needs to submit reps on the basis of lack of knowledge about the tolling arrangements, so is a first time user, and MG tend to treat these cases more leniently than serial offenders. Hopefully they will cancel the PCN provided the toll is paid.
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sjSimon
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 20:37
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Thanks Incandescent for your advise.

I am thinking of entering the following text as an appeal:

To whom it may concern,

I wish to appeal the penalty charge notice (xxxxxxx) and make representation on the basis of a lack of knowledge of the tolling arrangements. As a first time user, I was not familiar with the arrangements and mad the assumption that toll booths existed further down the road where the charges applied.

I genuinely did not realise I had to pay, and whilst I appreciate there was signage available, it was not clear to me the procedure for payment, nor would I have had adequate time to read the rules of payment whilst concentrating on driving.

On this basis I would appeal that as this is a first time offence that the penalty be removed and of course goes without saying that I would pay the original charge of £2.
Kind regards
xxxxxx

This post has been edited by sjSimon: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 20:38
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Incandescent
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 21:16
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Yes, that seems reasonable to me; lets hope Mersey Gateway are reasonable too. Basically you're not trying to bluff your way which is a good thing, so they may respond favourably.

There are only two of these barrier-free bridge toll arrangements in the UK, the other being the Dartford tunnels and bridge so they are probably unknown by 75% of the population. All Scottish bridges are free. The same company manage both and have always been reasonable as far as this forum goes.
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Formfeed
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 22:00
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You can make a representation online using the PCN number, citing either poor signage, lack of barriers or any other sensible reason.

In the event that they refuse it, you can appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal using the appeal code on the back of that letter.

Note that the Tribunal have already ruled that HBC must not delegate the duty of representation to a third party, as they currently do with Merseyflow company and that in doing so are not fairly hearing representations.

Hence if yours fails it was not fairly heard.

Halton Borough Council are yet to win a single appeal made to the TPT.

There's a fairly active Facebook group called Scrap Mersey Tolls who deal with similar cases very often and who may be worth a look if you want more specific advice.

No one has lost yet once it gets to TPT and even some cases which got as far as bailiffs have had money returned.

This post has been edited by Formfeed: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 22:03


--------------------
The above is my view and does not constitute advice.
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sjSimon
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 22:14
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Thanl you Incandescent and Formfeed for your responses.

I note that when appealing online and selecting the "Compelling reasons" option it states the following:


=====
In the next screen we will ask you to explain what these compelling reasons are and provide any evidence applicable.

The following reasons will not be considered and we may reject your representation.

Inadequate Signage: The signs across the bridge and road route are sufficient to meet the requirements of the Mersey Gateway Bridge Byelaws 2016 and the Transport Act 2000 and have been authorised by the Department for Transport (DfT).
No Toll Booths: The Mersey Gateway Bridge is a toll bridge that is a free-flowing operation to ensure journeys are quicker, easier and more reliable. Installing toll booths would create congestion.
Sat Nav / Traffic Diversion: Mapping data for satnav systems is provided by Ordnance Survey or the system provider and not by merseyflow. All road user charges are payable regardless of the reason for crossing.

====

But I do note it says we "MAY" reject your representation...they are really trying to put us off appealing.
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Formfeed
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 23:36
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Signage has been criticised by the TPT in the past so the Tribunal does not support Merseyflow's view that its all OK.

Toll booth - there was a guy who stopped to pay but when no one came drove on and was PCN'd, he won on appeal.

Sat nav, don't use that smile.gif

TPT interestingly also have criticised Merseyflow in the past for discouraging representations by falsely claiming that they may not succeed.

Whether they succeed or not is a matter for the individual case and should not be prejudiced, not should anyone be unnecessarily discouraged from making one.

Basically the whole thing stinks and MF consistently tell people its business as usual but no one has lost yet when they go to TPT.

Think about that - the Tribunal have upheld every single complaint upon which they've been asked to make a decision.

Many have gone uncontested.

Those which are closed prior to decision are done so with consent which I interpret to mean that MF have made offers to settle which have been accepted.

But when contested - no one has lost.


--------------------
The above is my view and does not constitute advice.
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