PCN: Help me to understand my parking contravention, Parking PCN in England, London Options

[crimson_wind]

This is England, London (Borough of Redbridge).

I was issued a PCN today (Saturday) for "parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". Car parked on single yellow line, no sign within the vicinity of the spot about specific restrictions. The closest one I could find was about parking on school entrance markings (Mon - Fri, so does not apply today). What could possibly be the issue here?

The car was parked at this location: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5631692,0...6384!8i8192

According to the Council's map (https://my.redbridge.gov.uk/map/permit-parking-zones) the location (Coventry Road) is not covered by the Parking Permit Zone, at least this is what I get from this map.

I also had a ticket from the pay&display machine that gives me 1h parking for free. Ticket issued at 13:01 and the PCN was given 10 minutes later.

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[stamfordman]

This is a rotten trick by Redbridge as they have certain controlled zones not on their permit parking zone map. We have often seen one in Gant's Hill and this is maybe part of it - what it is is a zone that has no permit parking bays and so it's just a yellow lines zone (which is all a controlled zone controls anyway).

Let's see the PCN and also your route to parking there as you must pass a zone entry sign for this to stand up.

But when you see a yellow line with no timeplate you must think it's in a controlled zone.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 - 22:07

[Incandescent]

PPZ issue is irrelevant. You were on a yellow line, which means there are parking restrictions there at certain times and days. If there is no sign nearby, then the street is possible in a Controlled Parking Zone, and the restriction times are on notices at the entrances to the zone. I see on their website that the muppets at Ilford describe these as Permit Parking Zones, then go on to call them Controlled Parking Zones in the text. What idiots !
According to their website, the street is in Ilford A CPZ, with times 8.30 am to 6.30 pm, Mon-Sun, so all week. These are the yellow line restriction times. I haven't managed to find an entry sign yet.
https://my.redbridge.gov.uk/map/permit-parking-zones

[stamfordman]

According to their website, the street is in Ilford A CPZ

No it isn't - see my post.

[cp8759]

I don't know what route crimson_wind took but coming from the A406 there are entry signs here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5565653,0...6384!8i8192 and I couldn't find any end of CPZ signs before the spot where the car was parked.

[Incandescent]

According to their website, the street is in Ilford A CPZ

No it isn't - see my post.

I stand corrected, but the website is absolute crap !

So is the huge area within the brown border a CPZ. within which are PPZs ? This is so totally against guidance for CPZs, it is not just laughable, but shows the way councils just ruthlessly game the system to their advantage.

However, it looks like the OP is bang-to-rights. Could an appeal based on the enormous size of the CPZ succeed ?

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 - 23:00

[stamfordman]

So is the huge area within the brown border a CPZ. within which are PPZs ?

There are discrete CPZs - it's that some have permit bays and some don't. Only the former are listed in Redbridge's list.

The Gant's Hill CPZ, which I suspect this is, is a big area.

I guess it is possible it surrounds a smaller listed zone.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 4 Dec 2021 - 23:04

[hcandersen]

The closest [sign] I could find was about parking on school entrance markings (Mon - Fri, so does not apply today). What could possibly be the issue here?

Sorry, but it's your knowledge of the highway code.

The school entrance marking sign relates to stopping;

Car parked on single yellow line

Which is a waiting restriction.

I also had a ticket from the pay&display machine that gives me 1h parking for free

Which is irrelevant, it applies to parking places not yellow lines.



And what you might see after the event on the council's website is not the issue: if you passed CPZ entry signs then those restrictions apply.

Sorry, but you're up against it here.

[Mad Mick V]

I suspect the sign for the yellow line is round the corner in Morland Road.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5630874,0...6384!8i8192

I would have a go at the signage being inadequate if its obscured like that.

Mick

[crimson_wind]

I am happy to pay parking charges and obey the local rules but I have a feeling that in the case of Redbrige Council they make it intentionally difficult. Could well be the case that I do not know fully the highway code. Whichever it is I'd like to know that. Here is the route I took yesterday (blue line):

and the PCN I was issued:

[Gert]

In CPZ matters, there is a lot to be gained by working out the CPZ boundaries and retracing your route back to the entry point. Get some snaps of the entry signs, if they exist, or the location in general if there is nothing there at all to tell drivers.

An empty post, a sign turned round through 180 degrees or covered by branches and leaves are all excellent evidence for the Tribunal.

[crimson_wind]

It would be great to work out where the entry point to the CPZ is, can't seem to find it though using Google Maps.

EDIT: found it: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5658721,0...6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by crimson_wind: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 - 10:34

[hcandersen]

Unfortunately, the yellow line terminates at parking places in Moreland, there is no sign, inadequate or otherwise.

The CPZ signs are in The Drive (which the OP says was their route) just north of Beaufort Gardens.

Can we forget about PPZs(which are after the event anyway), they have nothing to do with signs on the ground which is what the OP should have observed.

[stamfordman]

Can we forget about PPZs(which are after the event anyway), they have nothing to do with signs on the ground which is what the OP should have observed.

The OP asked why he had got the PCN as he was in an area not covered by Redbridge's CPZ list. I explained that they don't include CPZs with no permit parking bays in this list.

As a CPZ is a CPZ, Redbridge should list them all but it doesn't.

[Incandescent]

I'm afraid the basic error here is the OP would seem not to understand the meaning of yellow lines, because he actually went and bought a parking ticket.

[cp8759]

I suspect the sign for the yellow line is round the corner in Morland Road.

Doesn't look like a timeplate to me: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5630826,0...6384!8i8192

It would be great to work out where the entry point to the CPZ is, can't seem to find it though using Google Maps.

EDIT: found it: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5658721,0...6384!8i8192

If you zoom out a bit the signs look fine https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5658721,0...6384!8i8192

I suggest you go and get some up to date photos, the offside sign could have been obscured by a high-sided vehicle and if the nearside sign is turned more than in the GSV capture you might have a case, but you'll need your own photographic evidence.