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PCN for parking in Hammersmith and Fulham, Parking in a shared use bay in Shepherds Bush
pnc_fighter
post Sun, 20 Oct 2013 - 00:40
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Hi guys,

I received a PCN in Hammersmith & Fulham on 18/10/2013 on Saturday evening.
I have taken pictures of the PCN and of the parking sign.
I thought that I could park there for free between 6.30-8pm and it wasn't until I returned to my car to find a ticket that I rechecked the sign and saw that it read
'permit holders only parking between 6.30-8pm' at the bottom of the sign.

I am aware I misread the sign but found it confusing to begin with and have noticed what I believe to an error in the wording of the contravention so was wondering if I should fight this PCN after reading other posts and comments on this website on the following basis:

1) There is no contravention code for what is written on my PCN which reads
"Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without either clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place, or without
payment of the parking charge - shared use bay"

The closest thing I can relate it to which I found in H+F Parking Enforcement Protocol document
(http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Images/ParkingEnforcementProtocolV2060209_tcm21-113259.pdf) was
Code 12 "Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place"


2) Taken from spring2action's post-
The contravention states the word "residents' or shared use parking place" and the sign states "permit holders", so again they have got in wrong as their website (H+F) clearly
shows that permits in this location are not limited to residents but also include Business Permits and Doctor Permits.

3) According to a comments made by various members and by BagShot in previous post by muppet9966
I could also say that the signage is incorrect because it does not conform to the regulations set out in the TSRGD2002 and is therefore misleading.
The signs are supposed to have a separate panel for each restriction time, and are supposed to be listed in time order. By having a time later than the last one listed lumped in
with the earliest one on the sign makes it confusing.

Pic of parking sign
Attached Image


pic of pcn
Attached Image
Attached Image


Many thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by pnc_fighter: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 - 00:19
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post Sun, 20 Oct 2013 - 00:40
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hcandersen
post Sun, 20 Oct 2013 - 08:12
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We need to see the back of the PCN where all the appeals info is printed. Also whether the discount will be extended if you challenge within the initial discount period.

With what you've shown so far, you could argue:

Unclear and therefore misleading sign (but there's a similar one shown on page 65 here, so it's probably not the strongest point - http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...smchapter3.pdf)

Contravention did not occur: the PCN doesn't actually give a time of contravention as far as I can see, but let's say 18.57 which means that the prevailing restriction was "Permit holders only (G)" as it was not a shared use bay at that time that restriction being limited to the periods 9 -6.30 pm and 8-10pm. As the restriction was "permit holders" the grounds given in the PCN of Resident permit holders are incorrect. "Permit" and "Resident" are not synonymous terms, they convey absolutely distinct restrictions as can be seen on the authority's website (give them a link or quote). As the authority are aware, London Councils' grounds of contravention must be used (they are obligatory, not advisory) and these provide for a separate contravention in respect of "permit holders". As the authority have not used this contravention, the one stated is incorrect.

Also, if the authority have pics, pl post them.



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pnc_fighter
post Sun, 20 Oct 2013 - 15:10
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Thanks hcandersen for your reply,

I added the picture of the back of the pcn to the original post.


And yes the discounted price of £65 will be allowed for another 14 days if my first appeal is rejected.
As of yet there is no picture from the authorities, it should be there by the end of tomorrow because the said allow for up to 72 hours before looking on their website. I will look again on Tuesday to be sure and let you know.

This post has been edited by pnc_fighter: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 - 00:21
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 24 Oct 2013 - 20:39
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Your case is similar to this one (a different London Council, same misleading sign):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=84639


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pnc_fighter
post Fri, 25 Oct 2013 - 21:08
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Thanks SchoolRunMum for the telling me about the similar case.

hcandersen I checked for pictures from the authority and there is none. I tried to look at the link you posted but the page no longer exists. And according to the authority the time of the contravention was 18:57

I have sent off my appeal thanks to the help of you guys. Ill keep you posted to what they say.

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moorthya
post Mon, 10 Feb 2014 - 12:55
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Hi PCN_fighter do you have an update on what happened with the ticket you received from Hammersmith and Fulham I have been issues a ticket and did so because I was absolutely confused and thought it was ok to park after 8pm however the second line of the sign where it identifies 8-10pm is also a restricted time.

I am livid as I think its a confusing sign and it should simply state no parking between 9am=10pm without a permit of paying but by breaking up the times in the way they have done its not clear.

Really keen yo know how it went for you?

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Scotty786
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 21:09
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@pcn_fighter What was your outcome for this .... ?

Ive received a pcn under the exact same circumstances, parked on a single yellow after 18:30 received the fine bang on 20:00.

There was no yellow sign for the single yellow nor was there any controlled zone signs when entering the road.

Any advice on how to appeal this and on what grounds ...... Any help would be much appriciated.

Thank You

This post has been edited by Scotty786: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 21:14
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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 21:14
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No point in following up a PCN from 5 years ago and sounds like yoru case has nothing to do with this one anyway. If you want help start your own thread.

But zone signs are only at the boundary of zones, so check the council CPZ map first and retrace your steps to the boundary.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 21:16
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