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PCN - Code 62 (Council issued)
kingsh
post Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 17:33
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Received this “Penalty Charge Notice” Today Code 62. Issuedby Ipswich Borough Council

“Parked with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway (footway parking)”

Anyway, the passenger side wheels were yes on a curb by about 10cm (or less as it wasn’t much) but the wheels were not on the footway. As there is about 1.5ft of grass between the curb and the pavement. The wheels were not even on the grass.

Unfortunately no photos as I didn’t notice the PCN until I moved away and spotted it in the corner of my windscreen.

Is there any grounds to try and appeal this? I assume they have no photo evidence?
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post Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 17:33
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kingsh
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 16:54
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Ok.

So worth appealing or wait to see if they provide photos first?

Can I use my photos and pretend they were taken at time of the incident?
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stamfordman
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:00
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QUOTE (kingsh @ Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 16:54) *
So worth appealing or wait to see if they provide photos first?

Can I use my photos and pretend they were taken at time of the incident?


No. Get their pics. But challenge within discount period in any case.
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kingsh
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:15
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:00) *
QUOTE (kingsh @ Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 16:54) *
So worth appealing or wait to see if they provide photos first?

Can I use my photos and pretend they were taken at time of the incident?


No. Get their pics. But challenge within discount period in any case.


Ok. Start appealing now under “de-Minimis”?

Pls can you help me to write an appeal message?
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DancingDad
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:35
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Never, ever lie, especially about things like photos which are easily checked, date and time are embedded in almost all phone photos.
And unlikely to be same as CEO photos anyway.
Caught out in a lie and that's it, game over.

However, if CEO photos show that sort of overlap and kerb is low as you note, de minimis is likely to be accepted, by adjudicator if not council.
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kingsh
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:45
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Hi. How should I write my appeal?
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stamfordman
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:55
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Try getting their pics first.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 18:14
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 17:55) *
Try getting their pics first.


Plus 1
Phone them Monday and ask that they email them over.
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kingsh
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 12:23
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Hi. I emailed them yesterday requesting photos.

I should start appeal when received photos? What happens if they drag their heals to provide them before the discount period expired?

This post has been edited by kingsh: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 12:32
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DancingDad
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 12:46
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QUOTE (kingsh @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 12:23) *
Hi. I emailed them yesterday requesting photos.

I should start appeal when received photos? What happens if they drag their heals to provide them before the discount period expired?


You don't miss deadline but challenge anyway, adding a note that should they refuse, they should provide all evidence that they may rely upon for further enforcement, including but not limited to, CEO notes and photos, relevant traffic order and council enforcement policy.
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hcandersen
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 13:43
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OP, the order of analysis is:

Is there a restriction? Don't know, haven't looked for traffic order yet.
Was it signed as required? Don't know, you've not shown us what's there. Their presence could be established objectively, whether they are sufficient would be arguable...but only if any are there in the first place!

Was there a contravention?
Can we park this pl, which is all the photos would show, we need to know the answer to 2.

You posted on Friday:
I don’t think there is any? Will double check double physically tomorrow but looking now on street view and will get a pic.

And......?
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DancingDad
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 14:00
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 13:43) *
........And......?


Post 18 ?
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1430711
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stamfordman
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 14:04
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Verge parking banned by signs but OP possibly in de minimis.

That's the position - and council pics needed but challenge goes in anyway if they don't supply.
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kingsh
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 19:42
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Ok. Am confused.

1. I have requested photos by email to Ipswich Borough Council.
2. A) Should I start appeal now or wait for photos?
B) If wait, receive them after 14 days I will possibly lose 50% discount if I have to pay.
3. Is there a template or something I can use when adding a message to the appeal? Ie “De Minimis” and/or subject to Council photos?

This post has been edited by kingsh: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 19:43
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hcandersen
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 20:03
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I have also re-enacted how my vehicle is parked


As per Where Eagles Dare... and now compare these with my original....i.e. the council's photos.

We've established that the signs are in situ.

OP, the burden is now yours to argue de minimis and your re-enactment will not cut the mustard.

Edit
As regard the signs, I can see one in a photo. I've no idea where it's located. The authority have a problem with this type of sign in that there are no road markings, which begs the question how is a motorist to know in which direction the restriction applies? The answer is:
A sign must include an arrow pointing to the left or to the right where indicating the beginning of, or a change in, a restriction or prohibition.

The sign in the photo has neither, indicating that it is within the restricted area.

OP, you need to find the signs indicating the limits. If your car was within this area, then the signage is probably fine. But if not...


This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:26
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kingsh
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:57
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Hi all.

I requested the photos from the council and they simply stated that I need to appeal the PCN then the photos will be provided.

Pls can I have a template or sample to write the appeal?

I notice you said something about the signs there are 2 of these signs covering that section of road. There is also no lines on the road at all.
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cp8759
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:27
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Just make informal representations stating the encroachment onto the kerb was de minimis, and asking them to provide pictures. Even if they reject, they usually re-offer the discount option.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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kingsh
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 09:43
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Hi guys I have photos and I am more over than expected. Am unable to get the pictures off the pdf. Can I send the file to someone to either upload somehow on here and for a second opinion?
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stamfordman
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 11:02
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Well it's still fairly minimal. You can't fault the CEO here for quality of pics - nice job. But he/she could have walked on by.



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hcandersen
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 11:16
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I am more over than expected.


Par for the course for most OPs, so don't be too surprised.

We need the signs which indicate the limits of the restricted area. All your photo shows is that at that exact spot there is a restriction.
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kingsh
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 15:32
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hi hcandersen, this any help?

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