Sold Car - DVLA court case for no insurance after sale date |
Sold Car - DVLA court case for no insurance after sale date |
Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 17:31
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Jan 2020 Member No.: 107,454 |
HI,
I part exchanged a car on 26/04/19 and was issued with a fine notice from the DVLA for having no insurance on the car on 03/05/19. Despite sending proof of the part ex, proof that I had insurance on the vehicle that I cancelled the day after the sale, detail given of the garage that was sold to, they are now taking me to court next month. I've rung the car sales garage numerous times to ask for support, they say the car would have been driven on dealer plates,but they have failed to give me anything in writing that I can use as evidence. what can I do?? I really don't want a fine and points for something I havent done! This post has been edited by Pinkerton: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 17:32 |
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Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 17:31
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Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 17:36
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
What did you do with the V5c when it was part exchanged.
If you post up what you have actually received from the dvla with personal details redacted that may help. Use imgbb or similar. |
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Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 17:59
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Jan 2020 Member No.: 107,454 |
I completed it and as the garage had dropped off the car to my house he was going to pop it in the post box n his way back to the office, so I have no proof of posting.
I shall upload the letters shortly.. |
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Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 18:29
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
What is the actual offence, presumably as it’s DVLA it’s under the continuous insurance requirement not for driving without insurance?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 18:58
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Jan 2020 Member No.: 107,454 |
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Fri, 17 Jan 2020 - 19:34
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
So what the dealer did with the car is irrelevant.
Have you had confirmation from DVLA you are no longer the registered keeper or have you phoned to check? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 09:54
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I suppose the good news is that it's not an endorsable offence, if convicted.
This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 09:54 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 11:56
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
I completed it and as the garage had dropped off the car to my house he was going to pop it in the post box n his way back to the office Did he do so? Did you get confirmation back from the DVLA shortly after to confirm you were no longer keeper? Did you chase up with the DVLA if the answer to the above is "no"? |
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Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 16:12
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Jan 2020 Member No.: 107,454 |
I checked a few days later and they said they had posted it.
When I got the first fine letter I rang the DVLA to say I had sold the car and should of had the VC5. They said they didn't so I immediately went online and ipdated with date of sale and new owner (the garage) |
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Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 17:46
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Do you have any documentation to prove that you traded the car in?
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Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 18:08
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Jan 2020 Member No.: 107,454 |
Do you have any documentation to prove that you traded the car in? I have the receipt for the trade in, dated 26th April - I sent that to the DVLA as proof of sale and again to the appeal centre when I appealed being taken to court - seems to have had no bearing... |
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 19:38
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#12
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
What nobody seems to be in any hurry to explain to you is that the offence is being the person named as the registered keeper of a vehicle which does not satisfy the continuous insurance requirements. There is a defence if you are no longer the keeper and if you sent off the relevant part of the V5C when you sold the vehicle - see ss.144A & 144B RTA 1988.
The second part of the defence seems to be problematic as you did not send off the relevant part of the V5C to the DVLA. If the garage did (and provide credible evidence to that effect), then it would seem that that part of the defence would be satisfied (the obligation/liability is personal, but there is no good reason why the performance would be so). If not, then perhaps you should be looking to them to cover the fine for the mess they got you into. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 19:48
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Jan 2020 Member No.: 107,454 |
What nobody seems to be in any hurry to explain to you is that the offence is being the person named as the registered keeper of a vehicle which does not satisfy the continuous insurance requirements. There is a defence if you are no longer the keeper and if you sent off the relevant part of the V5C when you sold the vehicle - see ss.144A & 144B RTA 1988. The second part of the defence seems to be problematic as you did not send off the relevant part of the V5C to the DVLA. If the garage did (and provide credible evidence to that effect), then it would seem that that part of the defence would be satisfied (the obligation/liability is personal, but there is no good reason why the performance would be so). If not, then perhaps you should be looking to them to cover the fine for the mess they got you into. Thank you, I appreciate your candor. |
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:04
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
The DVLA will say that you should have contacted them when you did not receive an acknowledgement letter within 4 weeks confirming that you no longer had any responsibility for the vehicle, in accordance with the instructions on the reverse of V5C/3. You could have done that and it would have avoided this situation, but you had no legal obligation to do so, your obligation was only to notify the DVLA, as Andy explains above, either by sending off the form or by notifying them online.
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:12
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#15
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
The DVLA will say that you should have contacted them when you did not receive an acknowledgement letter within 4 weeks confirming that you no longer had any responsibility for the vehicle, in accordance with the instructions on the reverse of V5C/3. You could have done that and it would have avoided this situation, Whilst the OP does not say when the 'fine notice' was issued, I suspect from the information quoted below that contacting the DVLA 4 weeks later would not have helped. I also struggle to see how telling the OP what he could have done differently in the past helps him now, unless somebody invented time travel and didn't tell me. I part exchanged a car on 26/04/19 and was issued with a fine notice from the DVLA for having no insurance on the car on 03/05/19. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Mon, 20 Jan 2020 - 00:17
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Although it is a question for the OP to answer, I suspect you are misreading the sentence you quote, and on whatever date the OP received the letter it referred to him having no insurance on 3/5/19, rather than that being the date of the letter.
He should have received an insurance advisory letter about his car apparently being uninsured and have had time to correct the situation before being sent the fine notice, that how the scheme is meant to work LINK but I am not convinced that always happens. The point of the post was really to tell him how the DVLA will push the blame on to him, time travel still being in the development stage. -------------------- |
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