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NIP 14 Day Rule after some year's, Has anything changed in 15 years?
A406
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:28
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Hi there.

It's been a while since I last posted.
I have been on the speeding ticket "wizard" but the initial posts on the subject are over 15 years old now so I just wanted to check if anything much has changed since then?!

The nuts and bolts are -

I've received an NIP through the post for the alleged offence of exceeding a variable speed limit via an automatic camera device.

The offence was alleged on 13th December 2018.
The NIP was dated January 3rd 2019 (and received on January 4th)

It's not even close to 14 days!

The address is correct, I'm the owner of the vehicle.
There are no issues with previous owners, spelling mistakes, recent moves of house, postal strikes, this is the first notice etc.

What is the protocol regarding an out of date NIP?
Is it still the same as the 2003 posts on here, with a suggested template letter (as suggested by the RAC legal team)back to (in this case) The Prosecutions & Casualty Reduction Unit....instead of the relevant constabulary?

Thanks in advance..
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post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:28
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southpaw82
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:33
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I’d be making sure that it is actually late before you do anything that may otherwise prejudice a course or fixed penalty. Have you got your V5C out and checked the address and that the DOCREF date is before the speeding incident?


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A406
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:37
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:33) *
I’d be making sure that it is actually late before you do anything that may otherwise prejudice a course or fixed penalty. Have you got your V5C out and checked the address and that the DOCREF date is before the speeding incident?



Yes my address is correct on the V5, and my driving licence etc and there hasn't been a change in my address, or change of vehicle or any documents in some considerable time (The V5 hasn't changed for several year's)

This post has been edited by A406: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:43
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peterguk
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 23:19
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Out of time NIPs are almost unheard of without a good reason.

Have you called them to see if what you have is a reminder?


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southpaw82
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 23:26
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 23:19) *
Have you called them to see if what you have is a reminder?

Isn’t it too soon? 28 days haven’t elapsed since the offence on 13 December.


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peterguk
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 23:41
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 23:26) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 23:19) *
Have you called them to see if what you have is a reminder?

Isn’t it too soon? 28 days haven’t elapsed since the offence on 13 December.


Yes, you're correct. My mistake.


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Jlc
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 00:00
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The driver still needs to be nominated even if the NIP is late.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 00:50
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I would contact The Prosecutions & Casualty Reduction Unit and ask them if what you have received is the first NIP sent. If it is, send the RAC template letter, but modify it appropriately, you have not had advice from the RAC for instance, and the expression 'police person' is somewhat strange.


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peterguk
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 00:52
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 00:50) *
the expression 'police person' is somewhat strange.


strange, but outstandingly labourite PC... biggrin.gif


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A406
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 11:30
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Trying to get hold of them on the phone is something else!
Engaged non stop!!.......an engaged tone in 2019....who knew?!

I'll keep trying but I'd be amazed if this was a reminder notice.
For an offence that occurred on December 13th, lets say they were so speedy they sent out an original NIP the very next day (unlikely but for the sake of a point) and it was received the day after.
They have then apparently sent a reminder notice less than three weeks into the 28 day notice period....or put another way....they have (possibly) sent a reminder notice 3 weeks and 1 day after the actual alleged offence!!

I've NEVER known anyone be that speedy or efficient, or have the desire to do such extra paperwork and dilligence off their own back (plus throw in all the additional postage costs)

I'll keep trying the number but will be amazed if it's a reminder notice this quick!
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andy_foster
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 11:48
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QUOTE (A406 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:37) *
Yes my address is correct on the V5,


Do you have a V5 or a V5C? Have you physically checked it, or are you merely assuming that it is correct?

NIPs issued late are very rare - according to some who work for the dark side, impossible to issue late without some kind of manual override.
Drivers who swear blind that they are the RK but do not have the V5C because they are not the RK, or the address is a previous one, etc. are far more common.


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Redivi
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:32
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Keep the original of that letter and reply on a copy
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A406
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:39
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 11:48) *
QUOTE (A406 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:37) *
Yes my address is correct on the V5,


Do you have a V5 or a V5C? Have you physically checked it, or are you merely assuming that it is correct?

NIPs issued late are very rare - according to some who work for the dark side, impossible to issue late without some kind of manual override.
Drivers who swear blind that they are the RK but do not have the V5C because they are not the RK, or the address is a previous one, etc. are far more common.


Dammit.
On research of my documents it seems I didn't receive a new V5 (for whatever reason) when I moved house some months ago and my V5 was (is still currently) registered to my old address.
I presume this would account for the delay in receiving the NIP and would fall under the category of "Reasonable time" (22 days) ?

This might be something almost for a thread on it's own but the claim that there was a variable speed limit of 60mph is wrong.
There were three people in the car, there were no roadworks and no signs up saying the speed limit was now at 60mph.

Now firstly I'm aware 77 is still above the speed limit, but do the highways agency have to keep a record of what speed limits are set to and at what time and for what reason?
Because as it stands (14 day issues aside) the charge is wrong.....it's just how to go about finding the evidence to verify this if applicable as and when.

Can the prosecuting constabulary just amend the charge or is that a no-no?
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peterguk
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:44
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QUOTE (A406 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:39) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 11:48) *
QUOTE (A406 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:37) *
Yes my address is correct on the V5,


Do you have a V5 or a V5C? Have you physically checked it, or are you merely assuming that it is correct?

NIPs issued late are very rare - according to some who work for the dark side, impossible to issue late without some kind of manual override.
Drivers who swear blind that they are the RK but do not have the V5C because they are not the RK, or the address is a previous one, etc. are far more common.


Dammit.
On research of my documents it seems I didn't receive a new V5 (for whatever reason) when I moved house some months ago and my V5 was (is still currently) registered to my old address.
I presume this would account for the delay in receiving the NIP and would fall under the category of "Reasonable time" (22 days) ?

This might be something almost for a thread on it's own but the claim that there was a variable speed limit of 60mph is wrong.
There were three people in the car, there were no roadworks and no signs up saying the speed limit was now at 60mph.

Now firstly I'm aware 77 is still above the speed limit, but do the highways agency have to keep a record of what speed limits are set to and at what time and for what reason?
Because as it stands (14 day issues aside) the charge is wrong.....it's just how to go about finding the evidence to verify this if applicable as and when.

Can the prosecuting constabulary just amend the charge or is that a no-no?


So no late NIP defence.
Presumably the offence is exceeding the speed limit? Which, by your admission, you were.


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southpaw82
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:56
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QUOTE (A406 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:39) *
Dammit.
On research of my documents it seems I didn't receive a new V5 (for whatever reason) when I moved house some months ago and my V5 was (is still currently) registered to my old address.


Oops.

QUOTE
I presume this would account for the delay in receiving the NIP and would fall under the category of "Reasonable time" (22 days) ?


“Reasonable time” doesn’t come into it. If they served the first NIP on the address held at the DVLA they have complied with the law.

QUOTE
This might be something almost for a thread on it's own


No, one case, one thread.



QUOTE
Now firstly I'm aware 77 is still above the speed limit, but do the highways agency have to keep a record of what speed limits are set to and at what time and for what reason?
Because as it stands (14 day issues aside) the charge is wrong.....it's just how to go about finding the evidence to verify this if applicable as and when.

Can the prosecuting constabulary just amend the charge or is that a no-no?

The offence is exceeding the speed limit by contravening the relevant order. I can’t see much objection to amending the charge to cite the correct order (such as the national speed limits order) if necessary as it seems to cause you no prejudice (other than that you might then be convicted, but that’s the point).


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cp8759
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 14:32
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QUOTE (A406 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:39) *
Now firstly I'm aware 77 is still above the speed limit, but do the highways agency have to keep a record of what speed limits are set to and at what time and for what reason?
Because as it stands (14 day issues aside) the charge is wrong.....it's just how to go about finding the evidence to verify this if applicable as and when.

What's the charge wording?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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A406
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 14:41
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The charge wording is - The alleged offence of - Exceed a variable speed limit - automatic camera device
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cp8759
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 16:06
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QUOTE (A406 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 14:41) *
The charge wording is - The alleged offence of - Exceed a variable speed limit - automatic camera device

That's not charge wording. Charge wording would be something like: "Mr A406 on such and such a date and time at such and such a place, drove a motor vehicle at a speed of XX miles per hour, contrary to the Such and Such a Traffic Order, section 89 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988". However, you will only get this once the police have issued criminal proceedings against you, i.e. once you're on your way to court (and presumably you'd rather deal with the matter with a course or a fixed penalty notice). There is no requirement to give particularised details of the offence at this stage, a NIP need only convey "the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed", you know the nature of the offence is speeding and if the NIP tells you the time and place, that's all that is required.

That having being said, you can contact the relevant highways authority and ask them for the speed limits in force on that particular day, they will normally disclose this to you with no fuss.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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KH_
post Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 13:49
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QUOTE (A406 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:37) *
Yes my address is correct on the V5, and my driving licence etc and there hasn't been a change in my address, or change of vehicle or any documents in some considerable time (The V5 hasn't changed for several year's)



QUOTE (A406 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:39) *
Dammit.
On research of my documents it seems I didn't receive a new V5 (for whatever reason) when I moved house some months ago and my V5 was (is still currently) registered to my old address.


Despite my confusion over the two quotes above, the offer of a fixed penalty (or course if you're eligible) will be the same for the two speed limits, with the proviso that they wouldn't normally proceed with 77 in a 70.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 14:02
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If you still have the V5 showing your old address, the reason ain’t been changed is probably because you didn’t send it off?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 14:02


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