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Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought back and won.
stamfordman
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 14:28
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Interesting US story.

Järlström was inspired by the $150 ticket his wife got in the mail in May after driving through an intersection with a red-light camera in Beaverton, Ore. His research showed that the mathematical formula used in the timing of yellow lights was outdated and unfair to drivers.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning...m=.520daab3dca4
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post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 14:28
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 19:10
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However, this wasn't a traffic-related case; it was a free speech case. Sometimes, having a written constitution comes in handy.

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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 10:11
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Ticket in May? Actually September 2013 but lets not let the facts get in the way of a story! (see Oregon live link below with a much better version of the underlying story)

In the UK this wouldn't happen as 'Engineer' isnt a protected term so anyone can call themselves an engineer - innit! (unlike for example a veterinary nurse who has to be suitably qualified to do so legally), actually reading what I can find Jalstrom isnt an engineer but a technician (using the definitions used where it is a protected term such as Germany) but that isn't really relevant.

His argument is, in my opinion, entirely without merit though
QUOTE
Typical of a yellow light on a flat 30 mph street in the Portland area, the one at the red-light camera on Allen is set to last 3.5 seconds, the city of Beaverton says. However, Järlström found some yellows last only 3.35 seconds.

We have 3 second (+/-0.25) on 60mph streets and it doesn't seem to create an issue. Interestingly Oregon law is different to most of the US in that (like the UK) Yellow means STOP unless its unsafe to do so (in most the US it's simply a warning a red light is soon to occur), so even if they extend the yellow I would argue that those crossing on Yellow just before it turns red are probably breaking the law anyway, especially considering its a 30mph road. ( of interest is this post and some of the comments )


I can't see the video (co. firewall) but most commentaries suggest she just jumped the lights and they should both suck it up, I don't approve of the way they tried to gag him, instead they should have silenced him with logic.

I see similarities with a certain UK Gatso case here.......

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 10:42


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Slapdash
post Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 11:10
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Does 3 seconds on 60 mph cause difficulties ? It is a hard stop.

At 60 mph you are 264 feet away the instant it goes from green to amber.

Now I kbow the world and his dog says highway code stopping distances are exaggerated and to an extent that is probably still the case. But they provide reasonable guidance. 240ft in decent conditions.

I wouldnt be too enthusiastic about finding a 3 second amber on a wet road with somebody following. It is doable of course, but it is a hard stop.


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Tartarus
post Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 17:52
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QUOTE
He is not, however, a “licensed professional” in the state of Oregon, where he put down roots in the early 1990s. So when Järlström did his own study of the timing mechanisms in the state’s red-light cameras and found them flawed, Oregon officials hit him with a $500 fine for “unlicensed practice of engineering.”

This is a real thing, someone who lives in Oregon mentioned it to me. You need a licence for a number of things. Mind boggling.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 18:09
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 17:52) *
QUOTE
He is not, however, a “licensed professional” in the state of Oregon, where he put down roots in the early 1990s. So when Järlström did his own study of the timing mechanisms in the state’s red-light cameras and found them flawed, Oregon officials hit him with a $500 fine for “unlicensed practice of engineering.”

This is a real thing, someone who lives in Oregon mentioned it to me. You need a licence for a number of things. Mind boggling.

It's pretty common across the US... barbers, beauticians, all sorts of "bonded tradesmen" etc.

There was quite a big court case a few years ago (in Florida I think) about pre textual searches of business establishments. Basically, the city inspector would decide to "inspect" a business. In reality the business was suspected of being a front for serious criminality. He would ask for "assistance" from the local police. Cue an "inspection visit" by some poor sap of a city worker backed up by half the local PD, including SWAT. "Oh, what's all this cash and drugs we found while inspecting your business records?".


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The Rookie
post Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 05:02
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 12:10) *
Does 3 seconds on 60 mph cause difficulties ? It is a hard stop.

At 60 mph you are 264 feet away the instant it goes from green to amber.

Now I kbow the world and his dog says highway code stopping distances are exaggerated and to an extent that is probably still the case. But they provide reasonable guidance. 240ft in decent conditions.

I wouldnt be too enthusiastic about finding a 3 second amber on a wet road with somebody following. It is doable of course, but it is a hard stop.

It's about a half g stop, fairly firm braking, but a long way off what most cars are capable of (not less than about 0.85g these days), but then you are meant to approach lights with the anticipation of having to stop, so blazing up at the speed limit in a 60 is just asking for trouble, from 30 there is no excuse at all.


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Fredd
post Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 09:07
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Factor in reaction time, and the fact that the same timing is used on 70mph dual carriageway lights, and the stop can be a lot more aggressive than that. It seems to me it would make far more sense to set the delay according to the road's speed limit. Heck, even our stuck-in-the-Victorian-era railways worked that out long ago with their signal placement!


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The Rookie
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 04:31
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I'm not disagreeing that really a longer time should be used for say 60&70 limits, and reaction time is factored in as it happens, but its still the case that with over 3 seconds to stop from 30mph (assuming she was doing that speed) the truth is not an issue with yellow light timing, but rubbish driving in this case!


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