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Paid No Insurance Fixed penalty - still got SJPN
Kemik
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:58
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Hi guys,

I received a "Offender seen conditional offer of a fixed penalty" on 21 September after being pulled over for no insurance on 21 August 2018 (company had cancelled my insurance as they "disagreed" with my no claims proof I had provided and the email they sent explaining that went to spam, so I was driving round thinking I was insured!).

I paid the £300 fine to the details requested and then on the 15 November received a Single Justice Procedure Notice saying I was "being charged with the offence of failure to comply with Insurance Requirements". The weird thing is, the Statement of Witness form says:

"On 24/05/2018 A Fixed Penalty Notice was sent to the defendant in accordance with Section 144A and 144C of the Road Traffic Act 1988. A valid payment was not received by the date specified in the Notice".

The FPN definitely wasn't sent in May as I was pulled over in August... There doesn't seem to be a telephone number on the letter to call and point out the letter is wrong - I have piad! Any suggestions? I can't plead not guilty as I was strictly guilty of having no insurance...

Cheers for your help!

This post has been edited by Kemik: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:59
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post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 19:58
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NeverMind
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:07
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Ignoring, for the moment, the date error did you meet all the conditions of the fixed penalty?

- replied in time?
- correct payment included?
- surrendered licence?

A lot of people miss that third point!

This post has been edited by NeverMind: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:08
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Kemik
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:14
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QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:07) *
Ignoring, for the moment, the date error did you meet all the conditions of the fixed penalty?

- replied in time?
- correct payment included?
- surrendered licence?

A lot of people miss that third point!


Oh balls, no I made the payment and thought that was it! It is in huge bold text that I need to send the photo card to the address... how stupid can I be?? What happens now? Am I going to have to plead guilty? What is the cost?
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southpaw82
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:44
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Hang on, two offences here...

You seem to have paid a fixed penalty (but not surrendered your licence) in respect of driving without insurance.

You’ve also received an SJPN for keeping a vehicle that doesn’t meet the insurance requirements (fine, no points).


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Kemik
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:19
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:44) *
Hang on, two offences here...

You seem to have paid a fixed penalty (but not surrendered your licence) in respect of driving without insurance.

You’ve also received an SJPN for keeping a vehicle that doesn’t meet the insurance requirements (fine, no points).


I don't understand? I only got pulled over once. How do I check which the Singe Justice Procedure Notice relates to? I haven't had any other previous correspondence. There was definitely no Fixed Penalty Notices received in May 2018 which is when the "Failure to comply with Insurance Requirements" is dated to relate to. It states in full:

QUOTE
The record shows that the defendant ... was the registered keeper on 24/05/2018. The vehicle did not meet the statutory insurance requirements contrary to Section 22 of the Road Safety Act 2006.

On 24/05/2018 a Fixed Penalty Notice was sent to the defendant in accordance with Section 144A and 144C of the Road Traffic Act 1988. A valid payment was not received by the date specified in the Notice.

No notification was received prior to the date of the offence that the vehicle had been disposed of or stolen and to date no notification has been received that the vehicle was insured on the date of the offence.


In regards to not sending off the license, can I do that tomorrow? Do I need to ring DVLA to let them know? They should also know about this SJPN too right?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:22
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DVLA know nothing until after sentancing, if you think logically that’s perfectly sensible, they don’t need to know about cases where defendants are acquitted.


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Kemik
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:28
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 23:22) *
DVLA know nothing until after sentancing, if you think logically that’s perfectly sensible, they don’t need to know about cases where defendants are acquitted.


The Single Justice Procedure Notice has "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency" written at the top. Does that not mean they sent the letter? Should I be trying to contact someone else like the Police who issued the original fixed penalty?
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NewJudge
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:42
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QUOTE (Kemik @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:28) *
The Single Justice Procedure Notice has "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency" written at the top. Does that not mean they sent the letter? Should I be trying to contact someone else like the Police who issued the original fixed penalty?

S144A of the Road Traffic Act refers to "Keeping" an uninsured vehicle. S144C refers to the fixed penalty notices associated with offences under S144A. So you may be looking at two different offences. Were you the Registered Keeper (RK) of a vehicle that was not declared Off Road back in May and that did not have insurance? I believe (though stand to be corrected) that the DVLA run their database of vehicles against the MIB database of insured vehicles and take action against the RKs of uninsured vehicles. That may explain why your SJPN has been initiated by them.
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Kemik
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:46
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 23:42) *
QUOTE (Kemik @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:28) *
The Single Justice Procedure Notice has "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency" written at the top. Does that not mean they sent the letter? Should I be trying to contact someone else like the Police who issued the original fixed penalty?

S144A of the Road Traffic Act refers to "Keeping" an uninsured vehicle. S144C refers to the fixed penalty notices associated with offences under S144A. So you may be looking at two different offences. Were you the Registered Keeper (RK) of a vehicle that was not declared Off Road back in May and that did not have insurance? I believe (though stand to be corrected) that the DVLA run their database of vehicles against the MIB database of insured vehicles and take action against the RKs of uninsured vehicles. That may explain why your SJPN has been initiated by them.


That doesn't sound good. No, the renewal is December. Basically I bought the insurance, they requested proof of no claims, I sent off the no claims. As far as I was aware I was insured. Queue August, pulled over, check emails to find one in capital letters saying important action must be taken, etc in the spam folder. Useful!

Shouldn't I have received a fixed penalty notice in May then? What should I do about the FPN for the Police one?
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Kemik
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 08:25
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Hi guys,

You were right - it was two offences!

DVLA said they sent three letters to my address between April and June but I genuinely didn't receive any of them. I did update my address as I moved to a new build but maybe the letters went to the old one before the address was fully updated. Either that or the postman is rubbish - I get mail for other people all the time with it being a new estate.

Anyway, apparently we can still pay the £100 fine before it goes to court so will do that when they open at 9am.

For the FPN from the Police, I'm going to get the license in the mail ASAP and pray that I don't get another one of these letters.

Thanks for your help!
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 11:39
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Depending on what the issue was with your proof of no claims, if you can get the insurer to accept that you did indeed have no claims, and that their notice of cancellation was insufficient, they might agree that you were actually still insured at the relevant time. If you can get proof of that, no offence(s) were committed... Even if the insurer refuses, again depending on the facts surrounding the NCB proof, the Financial Ombudsman could take a different view and require the insurer to confirm the validity of your insurance at the time of the stop. Something to consider, given the high stakes.

--Churchmouse
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Kemik
post Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 15:25
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Update: It was two incidents:

1. From DVLA where they said they sent various letters and reminders to our address (more likely sent to the old address). Rang them and paid an "out of court settlement" of the same fine (£100) and no points. Withdraw court case - success!

2. From Police when pulled over, called the local station and spoke to someone on their FPN team. Agreed to accept the driving license now and then closed the case - success!

Expensive reminder - always double check emails and spam. If they ask for proof of no claims, make sure they confirm it was accepted!
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LaughingLeaf
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 10:42
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Presumably they also refunded your premium (or weren't taking monthly payments) - if you keep an eye on your bank statements this should be a flag telling you something is wrong.
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bearclaw
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 16:19
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Is a single email really sufficient that they can disavow your insurance like that? Does the policy say anything about how they must notify you? I'd check very carefully - my policy specifically says that they will cancel by letter to the registered address that will take effect two days after first class posting should they wish to do so.

Unless the policy specifically states they can cancel witha single email, I'd be thinking about a formal complaint and going to the Ombudsman eventually if required...

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