10 % + 2, Speed awareness course statement |
10 % + 2, Speed awareness course statement |
Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 07:40
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 119 Joined: 28 May 2010 From: Sussex Member No.: 37,839 |
A customer has just attended a speed awareness course and has said he was told that "they" have done away with the 10% +2 mph so that if you get caught doing 31mph in a 30 you will get prosecuted ! Does anyone know if this is true
-------------------- Better to be 20 minutes late in this life than 20 years early into the next one !
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 07:40
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 09:23
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,505 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
A customer has just attended a speed awareness course and has said he was told that "they" have done away with the 10% +2 mph so that if you get caught doing 31mph in a 30 you will get prosecuted ! Does anyone know if this is true No, it's not true. Nothing like a bit of scare tactics... -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 09:58
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
Heard this many times but no one has ever come up with a documented case of a prosecution below 10% + 2.
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 10:09
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,197 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Well half true really, you could always be prosecuted for 31 (in fact when the 30 limit was first introduced in his speech the transport minister stated people would be), the +10% +2 is a decision made by the Police. No evidence that has been changed.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 13:20
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
No, but it seems to be a fairly common claim at speed awareness courses.
Perhaps conflating that 10%+2mph has never been a statutory protection, but instead convention adopted by all police forces. |
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 13:59
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
A customer has just attended a speed awareness course and has said he was told that "they" have done away with the 10% +2 mph so that if you get caught doing 31mph in a 30 you will get prosecuted ! Does anyone know if this is true That's ok, the Supreme Court has said that if you get prosecuted for doing 31 in a 30 you should get an absolute discharge, no points, no fine, so nothing to worry about. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 16:43
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 23 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,721 |
The instructors on speed awareness courses have nothing to do with speed enforcement and enforcement thresholds.
The speed enforcement policy is and has been for some time, at least 18 years as far as I am aware, openly published. If anyone took care to read them as well as the table of speeds there are supporting words that clearly explain that speeds below the published table of recommendations can be dealt with by prosecutions. That too has always been published with the speed tables. You cannot attend a speed awareness course until the speeds at 10% +2mph have been reached even if the police did prosecute below that speed. On every SAC I have attended I have heard a number of people who are "confused" about the speed at which they were caught and quoted a speed below 10% +2mph. They are either confused or are not happy to attend so exaggerate their circumstance. |
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 17:12
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
My brother had NIPs arising from a fixed camera near Nottingham for 32 and 34 mph
Would have accepted points for both Was spending so much time travelling at short notice that he couldn't plan any courses |
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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 18:01
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
My brother had NIPs arising from a fixed camera near Nottingham for 32 and 34 mph Would have accepted points for both Was spending so much time travelling at short notice that he couldn't plan any courses We've had at least one case where someone in Kent got a NIP for doing 77 in a 70, they apparently called the ticket office and queried this and they just cancelled it. Mistakes do happen, they can be fixed. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 08:11
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 28 Mar 2014 From: Corby Member No.: 69,758 |
A customer has just attended a speed awareness course and has said he was told that "they" have done away with the 10% +2 mph so that if you get caught doing 31mph in a 30 you will get prosecuted ! Does anyone know if this is true Yes, in some areas this is partially true! Those areas being 10% + 3mph instead |
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Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 12:59
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The instructors on speed awareness courses have nothing to do with speed enforcement and enforcement thresholds. Ridiculous. Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties. One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates. The course providers may be third parties but the police have a hands on approach, after all we are told it is all about safety and not money (but thank you for the money anyway). |
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Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 14:42
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#12
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,213 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
The instructors on speed awareness courses have nothing to do with speed enforcement and enforcement thresholds. Ridiculous. Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties. One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates. The course providers may be third parties but the police have a hands on approach, after all we are told it is all about safety and not money (but thank you for the money anyway). Have you actually read the post you are arguing with? Like the actual words, not what you think it ought to have said? -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 14:57
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
........Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties. One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates. ………... Do what ? Re offenders simply do not get offered a course (within time limits) and get the fixed penalty and points or court for more points. Serious re-offenders get totting up bans. Old Bill have plenty of stats to show they are doing their job and cracking down on these serious criminals who speed, keep the speed kills brigade happy and get to keep some money. Nominally this may be about deterrents but I have to question what deterrent is going to work when we see people clocking serious overspeed on managed motorways let alone on other roads with cameras. For me, the number of cameras about now has made me rethink speed, if only to protect my (clean) licence and judging by what I see when driving, many are the same. Without the speed cameras, I would happily still be cruising down motorways at 95+ and on other roads at whatever I felt safe. |
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Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 16:16
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Fairly obviously it is about face saving, if the courses were shown to be ineffective and central government stuck their oar in in such a way that payments were stopped then a swathe of police staff lose their jobs.
Of course the odds are stacked as the course criteria mean by definition people are less likely to reoffend. But of course guaranteed favourable statistics are the best type of statistics if you're relying on them. As for speeds undoubtedly they have gone down in the last decade. I changed after I got caught on a 30mph dual carriageway past retail parks at 11pm one night. Now I mostly just whack the speed limiter on and save exuberant driving for empty B-roads at night (Never got points for the 30mph although I think through clerical error rather than skill.) |
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Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 20:35
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Fairly obviously it is about face saving, if the courses were shown to be ineffective and central government stuck their oar in in such a way that payments were stopped then a swathe of police staff lose their jobs. Is there any data to support that the money from courses generates a sufficient surplus to employ "a swathe of police staff", or is this just a supposition? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 05:53
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,768 Joined: 17 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,602 |
Fairly obviously it is about face saving, if the courses were shown to be ineffective and central government stuck their oar in in such a way that payments were stopped then a swathe of police staff lose their jobs. Is there any data to support that the money from courses generates a sufficient surplus to employ "a swathe of police staff", or is this just a supposition? In any case wouldn't this be a good thing if it were true? -------------------- British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012 |
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Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 08:45
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties.
One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates The insurance companies clearly don't think they're of any value if Admiral increases premiums for drivers that have taken a SAC |
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Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 09:03
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 350 Joined: 18 Mar 2015 Member No.: 76,324 |
But conversely, aren't they the only one that we know about that do...?
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Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 09:28
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,768 Joined: 17 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,602 |
Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties. One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates The insurance companies clearly don't think they're of any value if Admiral increases premiums for drivers that have taken a SAC There is no contradiction. Insurance companies couldn't care less about speeding per se they only care about accident claims. It's perfectly possible that an SAC does deter speeding but does little else to correct aspects of a driving style that leads to accidents. This post has been edited by nigelbb: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 09:29 -------------------- British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012 |
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Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 09:47
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,197 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties. One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates The insurance companies clearly don't think they're of any value if Admiral increases premiums for drivers that have taken a SAC The counter argument is that those who have attended a SAC may have a higher risk than those who haven't been caught speeding (so across the whole population including those who 'never speed' so would never be caught and those yet to be caught) while still being a lower risk than they were before being caught. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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