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Bus Lane PCN - Oxford Street (Whitworth Street West To Chepstow Street), Turned from Whitworth Street
JFHM88
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 10:49
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Hi all, hoping for some help. I can see cases have previously been successfully contested for this contravention in the past, but just wanted to ensure there are still grounds to do so with the signage that exists on Whitworth Street.

I've attached the PCN and also the street view images, if anything else is needed then let me know.

The template I've found on here is below:

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I submit that the alleged contravention did not occur, due to inadequate signage. I do not dispute that the signs employed by the council comply with The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, but I aver that the signs nonetheless fail to adequately convey the restrictions.

On the morning of the alleged contravention i was travelling along Whitworth Street and turned left onto Oxford Street, it is my contention that the signage, when approached from this direction of travel, is inadequate and fails to meet the requirements of regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 which provides, in so far as is relevant, that:

"Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a) before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;
(b) the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force"

While there are advance warning signs along Whitworth street, these signs do not convey the restrictions provided for the Traffic Regulation Order, furthermore advance warning signs do not create any restriction as such, restrictions are only conveyed by regulatory signs placed at, or as close as possible to, the point where the restrictions commence.

The regulatory signs installed by the council face traffic travelling along Oxford Street, and are not visible to traffic turning left onto Oxford Street from Whitworth Street until a motorist has already committed to the turn. The attached image illustrates the visibility of the regulatory signs for traffic travelling from Whitworth Street.

The regulatory signs on Oxford Street convey that a "no motor vehicles" restriction is in force from 6 am to 9 pm, except for buses, taxis and permit holders. There are no signs on Whitworth street that accurately convey this restriction and even if a motorist turning left were to see the signs on Oxford Street, it would by then be far too late to take an alternative route: reversing or performing a u-turn in the middle of a busy junction is not a real option and it may well open up the driver to prosecution from the police for driving without due care and attention.

For the contravention to occur, the motorist must have a lawful route open to him that allows him to avoid committing the contravention, at the point in time when he is given adequate notice of what the restrictions actually are. There is no burden on motorists to avoid taking a route on the off-chance that taking a particular route might be subject to certain unknown restrictions at some point further along the road. The situation might be different if the advance warning signs on Whitworth Street adequately conveyed the restrictions provided for in the Traffic Regulation Order, but that is not the case in this instance.

Furthermore, if the council contends that there is no requirement for the actual nature and timings of the restrictions to be properly conveyed to motorists travelling from Whitworth Street, this is tantamount to suggesting the contravention can be sustained on the basis of the advance warning signs alone, i.e. it would be a contravention to turn left from Whitworth Street and travel north along Oxford Street even if there were no regulatory signs at all on Oxford Street, clearly this cannot be right. But it also cannot be right for the contravention to be based on signage which a motorist wouldn't be able to see until he has already committed to turning left into Oxford Street.

One has to ask, if the restrictions are adequately conveyed, how would the driver of an exempt vehicle, such as a taxi driver who was delivering a customer to Manchester from a different city, know that the exemption applies and turning left onto Oxford Street is permitted? The simple answer is the driver would have no notice of the exemption, and he would have to either, out of an abundance of caution, drive straight ahead, or turn left and take the risk (at that point unknowable to him) that he might commit a contravention. This sort of ambiguity cannot have been what Parliament intended when it spoke of "securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road".

Therefore because the signage employed by the highways authority does not adequately convey the nature and timing of the restrictions to motorists turning left from Whitworth Street, and because no regulatory signs are visible to motorists turning left from Whitworth Street until it is too late to take an alternative route, the Highways Authority has failed to discharge its duties under regulation 18 above and the alleged contravention did not occur.

As per Watkin and others v Manchester City Council, (MC01044-1808, 29 January 2019) the penalty must be cancelled

Please let me know your comments on this.


Thanks.

This post has been edited by JFHM88: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 10:56
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post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 10:49
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Incandescent
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 11:13
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I think you might well struggle with this one, because GSV 2019 shows two advance warning signs about the left turn, then there is the sign as you turn left.

First

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4740537,-...33;8i8192?hl=en
Second
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4743275,-...33;8i8192?hl=en
Entry sign
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4746121,-...33;8i8192?hl=en

I suspect Manchester CC, being miffed about the number of appeals it was losing, has put in more signs, but I may be wrong.

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JFHM88
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 11:51
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Thanks Incandescent, yeah I've noted those signs on GSV and see they are dated July 2019. However, there is evidence on here of an appeal from June 2019 being successful with the wording I quoted. So interested if those signs are worthless/were put in during the weeks after that appeal.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 13:46
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he signs were updated after a site visit by the deputy chief adjudicator who found them inadequate for the reasons mentioned in your draft. The findings now are that e sihns are adequate


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Incandescent
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 18:00
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 14:46) *
he signs were updated after a site visit by the deputy chief adjudicator who found them inadequate for the reasons mentioned in your draft. The findings now are that e sihns are adequate

Indeed, so maybe best to pay the discount.
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cp8759
post Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 22:56
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 19:00) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 14:46) *
he signs were updated after a site visit by the deputy chief adjudicator who found them inadequate for the reasons mentioned in your draft. The findings now are that e sihns are adequate

Indeed, so maybe best to pay the discount.

Indeed, much of the draft is recycled from things I wrong but they're not a magic formula and the discount is best unless you can find something new.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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chipmuffin
post Sun, 17 Oct 2021 - 18:42
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I recently received a ticket for this same contravention in August 2021 and appealed it to Manchester City council on the basis of bad signage. My appeal was subsequently turned down, so I took it to independent adjudication and provided evidence of the location of the signs on approach to this junction and was ultimately successful in having the ticket cancelled, so do continue to appeal against this signage

I have recently been in the area again and saw 3 cars turn from Whitworth Street West into Oxford Street within the space of 5 minutes, no signage has changed and the council clearly don't care about improving this signage and are happy to take the proceeds from those who will blindly pay the fines.
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A1922
post Wed, 9 Feb 2022 - 22:35
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QUOTE (chipmuffin @ Sun, 17 Oct 2021 - 18:42) *
I recently received a ticket for this same contravention in August 2021 and appealed it to Manchester City council on the basis of bad signage. My appeal was subsequently turned down, so I took it to independent adjudication and provided evidence of the location of the signs on approach to this junction and was ultimately successful in having the ticket cancelled, so do continue to appeal against this signage

I have recently been in the area again and saw 3 cars turn from Whitworth Street West into Oxford Street within the space of 5 minutes, no signage has changed and the council clearly don't care about improving this signage and are happy to take the proceeds from those who will blindly pay the fines.


@chipmuffin I just received the exact same PCN yesterday. Can I ask the process you went through to get it cancelled. I think as others have pointed out there are a couple of signs on the approach to the turn, but at the actually junction there is nothing until you have already turned by which time it's to late most towns have better signed at the junction or even lanes clearly market to avoid confusion as you said its being used as a cash cow. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.
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dp7
post Thu, 10 Feb 2022 - 10:24
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It's best that you start your own thread if you want advice on a live ticket.

With reference to chipmuffin's post above though - I am surprised that an adjudicator is still willing to allow appeals on the basis of inadequate signage when there are now three advance warning signs in little more than 100m prior to the junction.
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