Contravention Code: 21, Parked in a parking space with no clear markings of suspension |
Contravention Code: 21, Parked in a parking space with no clear markings of suspension |
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 - 18:32
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
[attachment=72010:CBAAFE63...1114EA23.jpeg]Hi All,
I was hoping someone could me. I was parked on a road with no parking bays, yellow or red lines but outside the parking restrictions of course. However on return to my car the next day I had a PCN, for parking being parked in a suspended bay. However my issue is the suspension was not obvious for the space I was parked in. I found the parking suspension sign on a post with the parking restrictions on, however the sign was further away from the space and slightly shadowed because of a tree and its location. When I parked my car the evening before I did not even notice the sign, as I referred to a different post with the parking restrictions on, located behind my car which would have been the sign I saw first giving the direction I was coming from. This post had no parking suspension signs on it. When I read the sign in the morning after getting the ticket, I can see it states 'opposite no. 47 - outside Westwood house' which is where I was parked and you can see the '47' road sign in the picture. The sign also states '7 car spaces suspended.' My argument is that there were no bays on the road so how would it have been clear which '7' spaces it was referring two, also directly in line with the post with the suspension sign on there were red boarders up around the parking spaces, which clearly marks they are not in use. Surely it should have been the same for where I was parked? Could I appeal that the fine was issued incorrectly due it not being clearly marked that the space was suspended? Also the sign was not in a clear and visible to be seen when parking? If anyone could shed some light on this, I would be truly grateful. Thanks Pictures to follow. This post has been edited by Should have looked: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 - 19:08 |
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Mon, 21 Sep 2020 - 18:32
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Mon, 21 Sep 2020 - 22:30
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,915 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
PCN and a GSV link, please.
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Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 06:43
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#3
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Plus a photo of the suspension sign please.
Mick |
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Tue, 22 Sep 2020 - 19:30
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
A code 21 PCN cannot be issued if your car was not in a designated parking place, so this should be an easy win. However, please post up the PCN, the council photos, and give us a link to the exact spot on google street view, so we can make sure all angles are covered.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 18:09
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
Please see the PCN sign
Please see the suspension sign https://www.google.com/maps/@51.496985,-0.0...6384!8i8192 - Google Street view |
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 18:30
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 19:01
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#7
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Contravention took place on a Sunday for a suspension for utility works.
My contention would be that the Council does not allow such works on a Sunday due to noise and environmental protocols. Ergo no work took place and the suspension reason is invalid. Mick |
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 19:15
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Can we please see all of the PCN and the council photos
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 19:35
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 19:35
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 838 Joined: 15 May 2019 Member No.: 103,884 |
Signage looks defective to me. GSV shows a time plate on the lamp post behind where OP's vehicle is parked. That is the nearest one. Was there a suspension sign there? If the LA only put one up, it would be insufficient.
The signage is fairly unclear when it talks about 7 spaces. If space 1 is the end of the bay away from OP car in the direction of travel, then OP is in space 6 of 7. The bay needs a second suspension sign on the lamp post as it is reasonable for the OP to have checked the plate nearest his car then walked off away from his car and never passed or saw the lone suspension sign and been alerted to the suspension. I wouldn't mention the Sunday, it's not relevant. If the LA have put Sunday in, it's suspended regardless of whether any work occurs. They go off what the contractor says they need. They may send someone to inspect the work, or make the surface good. |
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 19:49
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
I did not see one on the sign behind my car, and I don’t believe the council has taken a picture of the sign behind the vehicle . Please bear with me I am trying to upload more pictures.
https://ibb.co/Q68BnDx https://ibb.co/Yh75KP6 https://ibb.co/h90DQ0b https://ibb.co/YXhyWYg https://ibb.co/Pt9xdHV https://ibb.co/ZxYq3y0 https://ibb.co/dbfNy8V https://ibb.co/GdYcrRD https://ibb.co/2gWcBPb https://ibb.co/1GcrWK0 Please let me know if you can see the photos in the link. Thanks |
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 19:59
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
Some more pictures of what I took after I got the PCN.
https://ibb.co/fN24CkN https://ibb.co/dGb19TB https://ibb.co/M6pkRYL https://ibb.co/nQcxdnP https://ibb.co/SvPqrQy https://ibb.co/n7ySnC6 https://ibb.co/pRgL5qH |
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Thu, 24 Sep 2020 - 20:29
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I can't enlarge those photos pleas use imgur. and we need to see the whole of the PCN not just the little bit you think is relevant.
I too think there may be an argument re the signage but cannot tell with what we have so far -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 25 Sep 2020 - 14:33
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The CEO pictures are all thumbnails, we need to see them full size. If you PM me the PCN details I'll post them up for you.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 25 Sep 2020 - 16:09
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#15
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
@Gert
Sunday is entirely relevant if no works took place. It is also relevant if the utility company did not pay the suspension fee for that day on the basis that the Council's protocols made any payment redundant. We've successfully appealled this type of situation in the past for Sunday and Bank Holiday suspensions. Mick |
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Fri, 25 Sep 2020 - 16:32
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
@Gert Sunday is entirely relevant if no works took place. It is also relevant if the utility company did not pay the suspension fee for that day on the basis that the Council's protocols made any payment redundant. We've successfully appealled this type of situation in the past for Sunday and Bank Holiday suspensions. Mick Particularly as the Sunday was the last day of suspension so if it had in effect finished because no more work was to occur on the Sunday then the sign and suspension should not be there Can't check the authorisation because we do not know which council -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 09:47
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#17
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
Ok apologies for the late reply. I hope now you will be able to see the photos.
This is the link to the council photos: https://imgur.com/a/2QTHNnI This is the link to the photos I took after receiving the ticket. https://imgur.com/a/G3WNrup I really hope you can see them now. I have uploaded the who PCN, minus the back if you need to see more I will upload more. I really do appreciate your help on this matter. |
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Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 09:51
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
HOW do you think we can read that PCN If you want help do as we ask
What I do know is that if work is not allowed on a Sunday the sign is not authorised as it should have been removed http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3525.pdf This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 09:55 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 10:49
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#19
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
Sorry I realised after uploading the picture how bad the image quality was
Try this link for the PCN https://imgur.com/a/8CGoEHB And then this on for the picture I took https://imgur.com/a/M3OJ8Ou |
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Sat, 26 Sep 2020 - 13:57
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#20
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,848 |
@pastmybest.
Are you suggesting that because it was issued on a Sunday, that the PCN is therefore invalid? If that is the case do you know what sort of wording should I use in my appeal ? |
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