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awaiting court summons for Driving Without Due Care and Attention & 3 defective tyres
s88ats
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 01:25
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In a short summary I undertook a car who was travelling at 15mph in a 30mph zone & then overtook a bus on the over side of the road on a straight nearing a set of traffic lights (that were red) just before a left hand bend. I first tried to see what lane the bus was travelling in as there were two lane's, darted from one lane to the other to see what lane I could get passed the the bus - bus was in the middle of both. I got agitated as I believed the bus should have been in one lane and not two, so I over took it - within the speed limit. I then got stopped by 3 police officers whist waiting in the traffic lights who were 5 cars behind. Apparently they had been following me for a while, noticed I sped off faster on a traffic light then others & I stood out because of my driving? This was all within the speed limit!

Whist they were doing there checks on me & the car, I explained to one of the officers who told me why they had pulled me over & said once all your checks come back fine your free to go. Another was checking my possessions inside of the car - again all fine. The third (who was doing the checks) turned around and said I am going to process you under the Driving Without Due Care and Attention act. He then went around the car himself to inspect my tyres and said 3 of 4 were defective and that's straight 9 points on my license! My MOT on the car was done on the 09/01/2012, a week ago!!

He then went on to saying I will be getting court summons in the post for Driving Without Due Care and Attention & the 3 defective tyres. I received no paper work from the police officers, all I got was "See you in court"

I have a previous conviction of TT99 6 months ban on 05-03-2008 & feel this will go against me in court. I am an estate agent so need the car everyday for work purposes.

I feel this is unfair as I genuinely believe I have not done anything wrong. I would like to appeal against this but I am frighten going against 3 police offers would be a bad move (along with my previous convictions) I would also like to know what would happen if I appeal against this or if I have actually broken the law to be punished for it?

If anyone needs any more information on this please free to ask, any advice on this is welcomed.
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post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 01:25
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spanner345
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 09:03
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The police are regularly wrong on tyre legality. get them checked again by an mot station, if ok then get them checked by your nearest ministry goods vehicle testing station, they usually will help out.


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baggins1234
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 11:16
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QUOTE (s88ats @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 01:25) *
In a short summary I undertook a car who was travelling at 15mph in a 30mph zone & then overtook a bus on the over side of the road on a straight nearing a set of traffic lights (that were red) just before a left hand bend. I first tried to see what lane the bus was travelling in as there were two lane's, darted from one lane to the other to see what lane I could get passed the the bus - .


QUOTE (s88ats @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 01:25) *
I feel this is unfair as I genuinely believe I have not done anything wrong.


To be honest from your own admission the due care is pretty much unavoidable

You may however have some leeway on the tyres but you need to get them checked asap at your nearest VOSA or MOT station

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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 11:59
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Even if the tyres are defective, it's highly unlikely that you would receive 3x3 points, normally you only get points for the single offence with the highest points. In this case this would likely be for the DWDC (if summoned and found guilty).
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CuriousOrange
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 12:14
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The comes in the question of continuing offences though - although the tyre offences (if true) were committed at the same time as the DWDCA offence (if true), they were also committed before that offence. That's my understanding anyway.

So I could well imagine the possibility of 3 points + 3 x fines for the tyres and an additional 3-9 points plus fine for the DWDCA.

@OP: Protesting in court that just because you didn't exceed the speed limit there can't have been a problem with your driving won't get you far.

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s88ats
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 14:54
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QUOTE (spanner345 @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 09:03) *
The police are regularly wrong on tyre legality. get them checked again by an mot station, if ok then get them checked by your nearest ministry goods vehicle testing station, they usually will help out.


Do you mean getting another MOT done even though I got one done a week ago?

QUOTE (baggins1234 @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 11:16) *
To be honest from your own admission the due care is pretty much unavoidable

You may however have some leeway on the tyres but you need to get them checked asap at your nearest VOSA or MOT station


When cautioned I gave no reply as I was in shock as to what was happening. A moment ago I was told if everything was fine I will be on my way, to find out I now await court summons... I caused no accident, no damage.. I simply over took the bus as he should have been in one lane and not two. Is that really an offence?

QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 12:14) *
The comes in the question of continuing offences though - although the tyre offences (if true) were committed at the same time as the DWDCA offence (if true), they were also committed before that offence. That's my understanding anyway.

So I could well imagine the possibility of 3 points + 3 x fines for the tyres and an additional 3-9 points plus fine for the DWDCA.

@OP: Protesting in court that just because you didn't exceed the speed limit there can't have been a problem with your driving won't get you far.


I guess I may be looking at another disqualification if I can not prove my tyres were road legal.

@CO, what do you think will help me?

I will be getting a statement from the MOT station I got my MOT done to show a week is not enough time for the tyres to have become as defective as the officer was making out. I will then go to another MOT centre and get a second opinion and will try and get this in writing. Is there anything else I can do to protest my innocence? or am I clearly in the wrong..?
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NeverMind
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 15:04
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QUOTE (s88ats @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 14:54) *
QUOTE (spanner345 @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 09:03) *
The police are regularly wrong on tyre legality. get them checked again by an mot station, if ok then get them checked by your nearest ministry goods vehicle testing station, they usually will help out.

Do you mean getting another MOT done even though I got one done a week ago?


VOSA GVTS are listed here (avoid the ATFs, they are accredited by VOSA, but they aren't run by VOSA): http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doit...onlocations.htm

You can get them checked by a VOSA Vehicle Tester, and get him to put it in writing. But get your local garage / MOT place to check them first ... no point finding a VT to certify them if they really *are* illegal.

This post has been edited by NeverMind: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 15:06
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jobo
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 15:35
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QUOTE (s88ats @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 14:54) *
I guess I may be looking at another disqualification if I can not prove my tyres were road legal.


i doubt it to be honest, id say you'd be unlucky to walk out of court with more than 6 points all in, even if your tyres are illegal, which il bet a pound they arnt, get your bottom down to the mot station asap, if you want to stick a piture up of the worst tyre people will give a view

nb no promises


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Logician
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 15:53
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If you had an MoT a week ago, I would go back to the same garage and ask them to check the tread depth as this has been questioned by the police.


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CuriousOrange
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 16:02
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QUOTE (s88ats @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 14:54) *
@CO, what do you think will help me?...Is there anything else I can do to protest my innocence? or am I clearly in the wrong..?
Apart from the stuff with the tyres, all you can do is write down everything you can remember (since just before the pullaway at the lights, as that's when they've been watching you) for your own future reference, and see what comes through, if anything. Until you get a summons you've nothing to fight, and until you see their statements you don't know what you're fighting exactly.
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roythebus
post Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 23:36
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Tyres "could" well have been legal on the day of the MoT test and worn to just below the limit in a couple of weeks. the test is a snapshot of the condition of the car on that particular day.
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jobo
post Tue, 17 Jan 2012 - 00:14
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 23:36) *
Tyres "could" well have been legal on the day of the MoT test and worn to just below the limit in a couple of weeks. the test is a snapshot of the condition of the car on that particular day.


it could, but unless he is VERY heavy on his tyres i doubt it, he would at least of had some advisories on his tick sheet

with have tyres than any sane person would think are iffy shown as legal, its commonly wear on the inner edge that the police confuse themselves over and its not really forgiveable that they dont know the law on this


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spanner345
post Tue, 17 Jan 2012 - 08:56
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QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 17 Jan 2012 - 00:14) *
QUOTE (roythebus @ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 - 23:36) *
Tyres "could" well have been legal on the day of the MoT test and worn to just below the limit in a couple of weeks. the test is a snapshot of the condition of the car on that particular day.


it could, but unless he is VERY heavy on his tyres i doubt it, he would at least of had some advisories on his tick sheet

Advisories are not compulsory. Strangely, using advisories is only advisory. The tester, if he is an idiot, does not have to use them.


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NeverMind
post Tue, 17 Jan 2012 - 10:34
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Plus, now that the MOT is printed on plain paper rather than coloured certificates, it's easier to miss the advisories if they aren't pointed out to you by the tester.

You can double check online though - http://motinfo.direct.gov.uk/internet/jsp/...ory-Request.jsp

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