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potentially observed for just 3 seconds - pcn restricted street
Benythebull
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 10:52
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Hi everyone, completely new to this so I apologise if I get it all wrong.

infuriated have received a pcn in Barnet for parking on a restricted street from 11.01am-11.02am

I had stopped to help an elderly lady I passed load shopping into her car (bloody do-gooder!!). Literally walked 10 meters down the road, helped and went back to my car. CEO appeared from nowhere. knew he had no time to issue the pcn or take proper photos as i was out of my car less than a minute, jumped back in car and drove off. Now received pcn for £110.00 no less!!!

Photo evidence confirms nothing in my unqualified opinion.

Whats my best way forward with this - apology letter and beg for clemency? or is it just not enforceable? Would like to tell them to stick it lol!!

Thanks for any advice.

Contravention Code is 01 - parked in restricted street during prescribed hours.

I have looked up observation times and this particular code carries a 0 observation time requirement.

Pictures are attached.
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post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 10:52
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Incandescent
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 11:15
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Unfortunately it is enforceable, being issued following your drive-away. The TMA 2004 allowed postal PCNs following drive-aways, provided CEO has started preparing the PCN. Photos are not a legal requirement.

As the saying goes - "never let a good deed go unpunished" !!

You could submit humble reps, and point out the CEO would have seen you assisting the elderly lady. However, this is Barnet and they are a hard-nosed bunch. Mr Mustard on here may be able to assist.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 11:41
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And how could they observe for longer - you drove off.

So, on which side of the road was this ‘elderly lady’ and her car’
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Benythebull
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:32
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:15) *
Unfortunately it is enforceable, being issued following your drive-away. The TMA 2004 allowed postal PCNs following drive-aways, provided CEO has started preparing the PCN. Photos are not a legal requirement.

As the saying goes - "never let a good deed go unpunished" !!

You could submit humble reps, and point out the CEO would have seen you assisting the elderly lady. However, this is Barnet and they are a hard-nosed bunch. Mr Mustard on here may be able to assist.


thanks Incandescent, guess appealing to their good nature is possibly my only option here. don't suppose the fact that I'm pulled up onto the kerb has any relevance??



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:41) *
And how could they observe for longer - you drove off.

So, on which side of the road was this ‘elderly lady’ and her car’


Hi hcandersen, I was on the same side.
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Benythebull
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:44
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Out of interest.

If I had pulled over to for some reason that would have otherwise put other road users at risk like feeling faint (I am in the car in the picture they took and thus not abandoned) would that be grounds for appeal?
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StuartBu
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:01
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:41) *
And how could they observe for longer - you drove off.

So, on which side of the road was this ‘elderly lady’ and her car’

I'm intrigued as to what difference that makes.
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 18:58
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QUOTE (Benythebull @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:44) *
Out of interest.

If I had pulled over to for some reason that would have otherwise put other road users at risk like feeling faint (I am in the car in the picture they took and thus not abandoned) would that be grounds for appeal?

Yes, but that clearly doesn't apply here.


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hcandersen
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 20:43
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The OP’s account at best goes to mitigation, the problem being that first they have to convince the authority that the account is correct.

I’ve helped countless mothers and grandmothers with their buggies and suitcases as well as a few with shopping, but I’ve always been close enough to notice their distress/discomfort. But I’ve never yet pulled across a line of traffic after catching only the briefest glimpse of a situation to aid anyone, except in my younger days to aid a couple pushing a car.

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StuartBu
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 22:14
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 21:43) *
The OP’s account at best goes to mitigation, the problem being that first they have to convince the authority that the account is correct.

I’ve helped countless mothers and grandmothers with their buggies and suitcases as well as a few with shopping, but I’ve always been close enough to notice their distress/discomfort. But I’ve never yet pulled across a line of traffic after catching only the briefest glimpse of a situation to aid anyone, except in my younger days to aid a couple pushing a car.

Where does OP say he pulled across a line of traffic? I'll concede his car is on the "wrong" side of the road ( going by the above image) unless it's One Way St
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Mr Mustard
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 07:42
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Heriot Rd is a side road to nowhere. OP would have to turn off his route.

Page 2 should say discount will be offered again if representations are made by the 14th day starting with day 1 as day of receipt of the Pcn.

A wheel on the pavement does not help the cause.

My representation offer in the footer is not available in this case.


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marvin28
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 00:00
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Could it be argued that the motorist wasn't parked but was loading? Therefore "parked in restricted street during prescribed hours" is incorrect.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 07:32
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?
‘lady I passed load shopping into her car ..’

It’s the OP’s car which is the issue, not the ‘elderly lady’s’.
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Mr Mustard
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 18:10
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I agree. Say, you work in a builders' merchants and a lorry load of bricks is sent to a customer. You follow the lorry in your car in order to help unload, can you park up for free on a single yellow whilst helping to unload? no. Only the lorry can.


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Benythebull
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 19:10) *
I agree. Say, you work in a builders' merchants and a lorry load of bricks is sent to a customer. You follow the lorry in your car in order to help unload, can you park up for free on a single yellow whilst helping to unload? no. Only the lorry can.


Thanks Mr Mustard et al.

I appreciate that I shouldn't have stopped where I did but it literally was for 1 minute and to aid someone - the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Can someone tell me what the grounds for appeal would be?

Thanks

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 19:58) *
QUOTE (Benythebull @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:44) *
Out of interest.

If I had pulled over to for some reason that would have otherwise put other road users at risk like feeling faint (I am in the car in the picture they took and thus not abandoned) would that be grounds for appeal?

Yes, but that clearly doesn't apply here.


I just want get off this completely unfair ticket.....do you have to play a straight bat when dealing with a crooked authority?
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hcandersen
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:27
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Would like to tell them to stick it lol!!

dealing with a crooked authority?


What?

It’s this recurring theme which to me belies the Good Samaritan story we’re being given.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:28
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Benythebull
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 22:11
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 22:27) *
Would like to tell them to stick it lol!!

dealing with a crooked authority?


What?

It’s this recurring theme which to me belies the Good Samaritan story we’re being given.


Too quick to judge HCA. Yes, absolutely would like them to stick it as I do not feel it is fair considering the circumstances. I am dealing with a crooked authority in the sense that Barnet are notoriously hard nosed and punitive simply because they can be. The recurring theme is that I am upset by it.

Maybe I am just old fashioned. I have received very few parking tickets as I always park properly and pay at a meter but I find it all a bit sick that the state of affairs has become so twisted that you can literally stop for 60 seconds within eyesight of your car to aid someone and end up with a £110 fine just because you were seen momentarily committing an offence.

The picture they have of my car shows me in it and the car is moving which I am guessing is still committing the offence even though they don't have to have photographic evidence of the car "parked"?
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Mr Mustard
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 22:34
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Did the council get more than one photograph? as if not your argument would be that the traffic warden had not got beyond merely observing. Please put up any other photgraphs that the council have, we always like to see the full picture.

Main exemptions to a single yellow are:

- boarding/alighting of a passenger
- loading/unloading
- blue badge & clock displayed

others to do with Royal Mail vans etc. which won't be applicable and the main ones above are not applicable to your situation. People who assist on here always play with a straight bat.

Best to get your challenge in by 25 September so as not to be hard up against the 14 day deadline.


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Benythebull
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 09:09
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QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 23:34) *
Did the council get more than one photograph? as if not your argument would be that the traffic warden had not got beyond merely observing. Please put up any other photgraphs that the council have, we always like to see the full picture.

Main exemptions to a single yellow are:

- boarding/alighting of a passenger
- loading/unloading
- blue badge & clock displayed

others to do with Royal Mail vans etc. which won't be applicable and the main ones above are not applicable to your situation. People who assist on here always play with a straight bat.

Best to get your challenge in by 25 September so as not to be hard up against the 14 day deadline.


Mr Mustard, thank you for the contact.

The photo that I put up on my post is the only photo they have and I am at the wheel driving off. I literally turned my back for 30 seconds and the warden was there. The only thing the warden had time do was to take a picture of me driving off and of the road signage which I am guessing he took after I had left.

So should I just write to explain that the traffic warden had "not got beyond observing"? Is that a legitimate reason for them to drop the matter? And should I explain fully why I had momentarily pulled up or is that almost irrelevant and not worth mentioning?
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