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> Parking near footpath!? , Parking code 62 in tower hamlets london
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(In Progress) will be updated from 29 June

Additions and sections Gratefully Accepted by PM to myself. (With Acknowledgement wink.gif )
[N.B. Insider is currenlty busy with 'other projects'. Please PM me with any 'additions and sections' to this FAQ - Andy]

You'll have to bear with me whilst I collate and post Items in here rolleyes.gif

Wayne's busy helping Neil so I've decided to create a FAQ for you all ohmy.gif

Welcome to the Parking section FAQ & Read This FIRST.

Before asking for help, bear in mind all of us volunteer our time.

Then remember we are not psychic, nor can we see the signs/lines you describe - Photo's, Photo's, Photo's are required. The Law regarding signage and lines is very precise, it might read "ok" but if it isn't a prescribed sign as per the law then it effectively does not exist.

PCN Date of Issue Problem - The Facts

NPAS Circular about the Date of Issue

Notice Of Rejections - Non Compliant Rejections

NPAS Adjudication Decision

QUOTE(matt1133 @ Wed, 1 Mar 2006 - 16:44) *
Hi there,

I thought I might include some useful links into this forum:

PATAS - Useful site for parking/bus lane/congestion charge and other issues, contains info regarding appealing, how an appeal hearing is conducted, amongst other useful information.

Case Law - click here to research similar cases to yours, or find case law to help your appeal.

Regulations - For parking, bus lanes and congestion charging.

QUOTE(jimmy ferrari @ Tue, 11 May 2004 - 00:13) *
There are sites like this one that will give you all the details you need, especially for getting them quoshed.

Here's one for appeals

Appeal against incorrect parking tickets and congestion charge penalties at the touch of a button!

Here's the article

and this is a helpful website.

but it's different if your on private land rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(DW190 @ Tue, 11 Jul 2006 - 00:22) *

QUOTE(FAQ Extracts from Richard Bentley (Signs & Lines Expert Witness) -
The Council say that I can’t go to Court it is not a criminal system, they say the same laws don’t apply, is that right?

In a decriminalised parking regime they are correct that you cannot go to a Magistrates or Civil Court to challenge their enforcement. There are a number
of avenues open to you, the primarily routes being the Parking Adjudication Services and the Local Government Ombudsman.

The Council say they are in charge of the roads, they can use what signs they want is that correct?

Not true, when the Council put restrictions on a road there are legal processes they have to follow, they only have the ‘authority’ to place ‘Traffic Signs’ on a highway, these must be the Government's prescribed or authorised form of line and upright plate.

What is a prescribed sign?

The format for parking bays, yellow lines, signs on poles are set out in law, and, those laws cannot be ignored. If the Council choose to use ‘alternatives’ which are not as designed or approved by the Government then in law, the markings or plates simply do not exist.

The Council say they can stop people parking or charge for parking wherever they want’ is that right?

There has to be a valid Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) which is created by a legal process. Many orders are badly worded, duplicitous and defective, there are some authorities simply haven’t bothered to create the order necessary to apply a restriction. They may have assumed that anyone would notice or it
may be simply an oversight.

How can I find out?

You have the right to access, examine or copy any Traffic Order created by the local authority, these are public documents.

How do parking controls work?

Think of them as a tripod, each leg has to be there and solidly built or the tripod falls down:

Leg 1: The signs, bays or lines.

Leg 2: The Traffic Regulation Order.

Leg 3: The parking.

If the signs are wrong, leg 1 falls, if the Traffic Order is wrong, leg 2 falls, if the parking wasn’t as alleged, leg 3 falls.

I was given a ticket in a car park, the signs aren’t like those on a road, is that allowed?

Signs used for private and off road car parking cannot resemble traffic signs, but they still have to be readily understood.

I am sure the Council have got it wrong, surely someone checks the signs don’t they?

The Government, the Police, the Courts and the Adjudication Services place absolute faith in authorities to get it right, tell the truth and know what they are talking about.

When setting up a decriminalised system all a Council merely assures the Government that they will put all signing defects right and will not enforce defective regimes, at that point authority will be granted.

It is a matter of trust, not checking.

The Council say I will lose if I try to challenge the ticket and then the penalty will increase, so I should pay up and limit the cost, is that right?

In a decriminalised system, it is the Council not you that is tested by the Adjudication Service, it is for the authority to prove they got it right, however, you will still need to evidence the errors / mistakes.

I have been told by the Council I will get a CCJ against me if I challenge or don’t pay, is that right?

The head of NPAS advised at a law seminar that contrary to suggestions and threats made on forms by some authorities, the Courts have ruled that; having an excess charge lodged at the Northampton Civil Court cannot result in a CCJ.

How do I challenge a ticket, who do I have to contact?

When you challenge your ticket(s) the Council should inform you of the process you need to follow and provide you with details of the Parking Adjudication Service, you should also consider contacting the Local Government Ombudsman.

Not all parking departments will provide such assistance.

A law seminar for Local Government Officers was held in July 2003 for Local Government Officers involved in de-criminalised parking. The event was run by NPAS and the Head of NPAS and two Barristers presented on this subject.

The Head of NPAS informed the Local Government Officers that:

“Regardless of the decriminalisation of parking, the Ombudsman is far from out of the loop. A wise appellant will combine appeals to the NPAS with complaint of maladministration to an Ombudsman.”

It appears that some LGO’s disagree with this statement, it is suggested that the content of this site is wrong. However, this advice was from the Head of NPAS transcribed directly from her presentation. The comments were further clarified in open discussion. As the Head of NPAS is an extremely qualified and experienced Barrister I respect both her knowledge and guidance with regard to the legal position on this complex subject.

The FULL NPAS Seminar Transcript - Link to RMBConsulting

What do I tell the Adjudication Service or the Ombudsman?

Set out all the defects, either in the signing, the ticketing process or the traffic order. Highlight these not only to the Adjudicator, but also the Ombudsman. Any ruling in favour of you will probably impact on other enforcement they undertook.

As a wise appellant, you should be making a tandem complaint, in the case of the Local Government Ombudsman, that should be for maladministration causing you injustice. The Ombudsman will ask what ‘injury’ you are suffering or costs you have incurred, bear in mind the penalty and stress of the process.

This dual complaint process is the route the National Parking Adjudication Service say a wise appellant (driver) will take. If the Council have done everything correctly, they shouldn’t be the slightest bit concerned with your actions, or be reluctant at giving out the details.

In the House of Commons on 22nd March 2003 it was stated:

“Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if
he will make a statement on the work of the Parking and Traffic
Appeals Service. [60146]

Dr. Ladyman [holding answer 21 March 2006]: I think the hon. Member
may be referring to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service (PATAS).
PATAS provides the independent adjudication service for deciding disputed
parking and bus lane penalties charged by London borough councils and
Transport for London (TfL) and congestion charging penalties issued by
PATAS has a team of Adjudicators who decide the appeals and can direct
London Borough Councils and TfL to cancel Penalty Charge Notices. The
adjudicators are independent solicitors or barristers of at least five years
standing and their decisions are binding on both parties. They are
appointed by the Association of London Government's Transport and
Environment Committee ALGTEC who are also responsible for paying their

Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what
steps he takes to monitor the number of parking tickets issued
illegally by each local authority; if he will take steps to reduce the
number; and if he will make a statement. [60148]

Dr. Ladyman: It is for local authorities to ensure that Penalty Charge
Notices (PCNs) are issued in accordance with primary legislation,
Regulations, local Traffic Regulation Orders and on-street signage. A Local
Authority Circular 1/95 Guidance on Decriminalised Parking Enforcement
Outside London" has been issued to guide them in these duties. Records
are not kept centrally of the number of unlawful PCNs issued but it is likely
that an appeal against such a PCN would be allowed by the parking
adjudicators and local authorities pay close attention to the results of
appeals. It is also likely that the local government ombudsman would
accept an invitation to investigate a local authority that persistently issued
PCNs that were not in accordance with the national and local regulatory

I am sure the Council know the signing is wrong, they won’t do anything about it and keep issuing tickets, what can be done?

If the route to a challenge above does not settle the matter, then you may wish to consider making a further complaint.

Not many people are aware that if the Council, the Members or its Officers know or knew their regimes or signing was defective, yet they were enforced and people were fined, those involved may have, or maybe now committing an offence of malfeasance or misfeasance in public office. To us that is called misconduct in public office.

These are serious matters with very heavy punishments and as such the route of any complaint should be to the Police.

How do I find out what should have been done, or what has been done to create a restriction?

Under the Freedom of Information Act, applications can be made to local authorities and the government departments for information, copies of documents including internal and external correspondence, forms, and reports showing the route taken by your Council.

The Council say that even if I challenge the ticket, by not paying within the set period I will face extra charges is that correct?

It is my understanding that in notifying an authority in writing of a challenge, the Council must freeze the conditional offer until the matter is resolved or ruled upon.

What should I do?

Be very careful and deal with everything in writing and in a timely fashion.

Who is responsible for paying the ticket?

The registered keeper so be careful:

a. A Council has the right to chase the registered keeper of a vehicle
for any outstanding excess charge

b. The fact you leave a vehicle in the care of others may lead to you
receiving an excess charge notice.

c. When you sell a car, notify the DVLA straight away, don’t rely on the
garage or dealer to do it for you, and do it in writing.

You will be liable for any tickets issued when the car was in
someone else's care, or by the new owner if they haven’t
registered it yet.

Is there anything else I should know?

Lots, but to keep it brief, remember that:

1. If you challenge an excess charge, write and notify the authority
straight away, don’ be put off by verbal comments such as:

“We will sort it out and write to you shortly” - that letter may be an
increased charge or a bailiff fee.

“There is nothing you can do, pay the ticket” - there is and do it in

2. Any delay in submitting a formal challenge may take you beyond the
28 day window.

Once that window has passed there is nothing you can do through the
Adjudication Services, but you can still complain to the Local
Government Ombudsman.

The Council won’t given me the contact details of the Adjudication Service or the Local Government Ombudsman, how do I find them?

Here are links to their websites:

Parking and Traffic Appeals Service

Lodge PATAS appeal ONLINE

Local Government Ombudsman

How do I prove I am right?

Preserve your evidence:

1. Use a camera and photograph the bay, lines and signs.

2. When photographing a bay take images of both ends, the
lines outside the parked cars and any plates on posts at the
side of the road within the area of the parking area.

3. If the ticket is for parking outside the confines of the bay, then
measure the width of the space from the kerb to the outer edge
of the white line. The minimum width of a bay is 1.8 metres less
a maximum of 10%.

4. When you take photographs of the bay ask a local trader or other
motorist to witness the evidence and take their details.

The time and date are important to note.

Is the signing correct:

All details of the correct format of parking bays and lines can be found
in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions.

Horizontal bay formats are to diagram series 1028 and 1032.

Echelon bay formats are to diagram 1033

Single yellow lines are to diagram 1017

Double yellow lines are to diagram 1018

The link to the online copy of the Regulations is:

One person can’t take on a Council and win can they?

The answer is quite simply, yes. Keith Hughes in the picture below proves the point.

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Last update: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 - 17:37 by andy_foster    Created: Tue, 1 May 2007 - 13:38 by Insider    Edits: 3    Views: 32,920
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