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PCN at Southgate Car Park (Starbucks Stansted)
Timz01
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 17:02
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Hello all,

Looking for some assistance with this one, the car is a company car registered to LEX hence the delay from getting the invoice to now, also it took the company a number of days to get the letter out to the driver.

Am I right in thinking the 14 day cheap rate is 14 working days?

Basically there is a McDonalds & Starbucks outside Stansted Airport, https://goo.gl/maps/FbLfv5k3Y8u. it would seem MET Parking have signs up saying you cant leave the appropriate carpark and have video of the driver parking, walking to the McDonalds next door and then returning.

They are going for a notice to hirer so not sure if that changes anything, my company does not have an issue with me dealing with this on behalf of the company.

The Notice is below, any thoughts on this one would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks
Tim




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post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 17:02
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 17:18
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QUOTE
Am I right in thinking the 14 day cheap rate is 14 working days?

No. But who cares about that - 'cheap' is ZERO! You won't be paying them!

Send the template for hirers in the MSE NEWBIES thread, the one written by Edna Basher, mentioned on this MSE thread today:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5864580
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Jlc
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 17:35
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The hirer isn’t liable unless they’ve met all the conditions of PoFA - they haven’t...

One of the easiest companies to beat. Will back down when challenged and never do court...

Did they include a copy of the hire agreement for starters?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 17:36


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Timz01
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 18:28
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So i guess the material bit is this:


QUOTE
13(1)This paragraph applies in the case of parking charges incurred in respect of the parking of a vehicle on relevant land if—
(a)the vehicle was at the time of parking hired to any person under a hire agreement with a vehicle-hire firm; and
(b)the keeper has been given a notice to keeper within the relevant period for the purposes of paragraph 8(4) or 9(4) (as the case may be).

(2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given—
(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and
©a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.


They have not sent me the copy of the hire agreement that would give them the right to claim the unpaid parking charge from the keeper. Therefore they cannot rely on the POFA to chase the Keeper / Driver for the "invoice"

Would a blatent copy paste work okay or do i need to add more to it?

QUOTE
To whom it may concern,

Parking Charge Notice [xxxx]: Vehicle Registration [yyyy]

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge (xxxx) issued to me by MET Parking Services as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA") and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why MET Parking Services Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Given that MET Parking Services has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,


Many thanks
Tim
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Jlc
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 18:34
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You've got it...

The challenge is fine - although, I like to say either cancel it or give me a POPLA code so you can pay to be told to cancel it... laugh.gif


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 21:33
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Be more definitive, tell them what they have missed in particular but not limited to, para 14 (2) (a).

Send it so that it arrives about 2 days before the end of the 21 day period so that they don't get a chance to send a compliant NTH.
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Timz01
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 16:50
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Thanks all for your time,

So basically they have given 28 days starting on day after it was posted (23rd June) so on around Day 20, the 13th July i will post signed for to the address the following letter:


QUOTE
To whom it may concern,

Parking Charge Notice [xxxx]: Vehicle Registration [yyyy]

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge (xxxx) issued to me by MET Parking Services as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA") and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why MET Parking Services Notice to Hirer did not comply with the requirements of the POFA in particular but not limited to, para 14 (2) (a).

Given that MET Parking Services has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,


I guess if i write to them do i need to provide my own address, to stop them corresponding to my company address, or do you think appealing online with email address be easier?

Cheers
Tim
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ostell
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 17:19
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With a hire car they can the 28 days normally allowed for action is reduced to 21 days, which is also the time limit that they have to send the Notice to hirer. That's 14 (3) and 14 (5) © in POFA.

I presume that the letter is still addressed to your company and not you own personal letter. You need to give them your name and address as the keeper. The NTH was not issued to you but to your company?
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Timz01
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 17:25
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Hi Ostell,

Correct, the letter was forwarded onto me by my company. It was just addressed to them.

I would prefer all correspondence to be put to me (mainly to save anything getting lost at work)

I will put my home address in the letter and send it 4 days before the 28th day.

Cheers
Tim
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ostell
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 20:35
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Submit the appeal a couple of days before the 21 days stating that you were the keeper at the time. As i said the relevant period is now 21 days, as I referenced in post #8.

Look around and you will find plenty of BOGOFF appeals that apply to the hirer.
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Redivi
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 20:43
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No point paying for recorded delivery

First class post with a free receipt of sending from the Post Office or appeal online

If you appeal online, take some screen-shots
MET have a habit of mislaying strong appeals if they think a POPLA code will actually be used - IIRC more than 90% aren't

Another challenge point that you can use later is to require that MET provides a copy of the contract for THAT car park
It nearly always No Contests POPLA appeals if it's included

Many McDonalds are franchises and the request creates a difficulty
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Timz01
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 06:36
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Thanks for the info, just a waiting game now.

Will report back when i hear from them.
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