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driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence, DVLA revoked licence without informing me
xone
post Sun, 8 Nov 2009 - 10:51
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Hello all.

Please help, I've had my car impounded for the second time this weekend. To explain. I drive a taxi for a living, I had a minor altercation with the police about me parking/picking up a fare and they are reporting me for obstruction of a carriageway, I'm not fussed about this at the moment as what happend next took me completely by surprise. The police do their usual checks and it turns out that the police national computer reckons I had not renewed my licence after a ban nearly 8 years ago. I only had a motorcycle entitlement then and have since passed my car entitlement driving test which you have to provide the examiner a valid licence, anyway, the car gets seized.

Saturday Comes around and I go to the police station with my current licence and insurance which turns out to be valid and I get the car back after paying £150 for the release. I asked the chap behind the police station desk to double check that my licence was valid and had not expired, he confirmed and said I'd not be able to get the car back without one.

So, Saturday night turns up and I go out to work in my car/taxi and 20 mins into the shift I'm pulled again and now I'm told the points I recieved last night have been totted up and I'm currently on a ban, no fixed penalty and no court ruling so how is this??!! Traffic turns up and gives me the run down as the car is being impounded again, Aparently now my licence was revoked this year in March on the 9th!! I'm to contact DVLA on Monday and sort it out, I put it to him that at the police station today I'd asked if my licence was a fully valid and legal uk driving licence and I was told that yes it was, twice, I also put it to him that I was stopped a month before for sounding my horn after 11pm and again the usual checks were carried out and there was no revoked or expired licence. Traffic cop says computer says no! So now I'm really confused and scared as my mortage won't be paid soon enough!!

I must point out that in March I had some points endorsed to my licence which I had recieved back, I was told via a letter that if I didn't send the licence that the licence would be revoked but I did send the licence and I did recieve it back with the endorsment. Could it be possible that DVLA recieved my licence but it had been delayed in the post and they decided to revoke it. I've not had any letters form DVLA telling me that the licence has expired or that the licence had been revoked!!

Can anyone suggest anything??

This post has been edited by xone: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 - 11:04
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post Sun, 8 Nov 2009 - 10:51
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 12:25
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 11:29) *
Did you take the name of the person you spoke to?
What was the issue with your licence? Why do they think that you don't have one?




Yeah I got the name of the chap on the desk, he's actually very helpfull. He emailed the officer that had taken my licence to see what was going on and had mentioned s88 rta etc but it was intercepted by the sergant thats been involved with both times the car has been seized! There is no reason given why they think I have no licence. Civvy said that he can't give all information out as some of it is to do with them building a case on me and that they are keeping the licence for that reason.

I've just phone DVLA again today to see if there is anything else wrong with the licence and again, for the forth time, it's only been revoked and I can drive. They have now suggested that I pay for a renewal over the phone and by 12am tonight the marker should have been lifted.

Seems a bit wierd that this sergant is getting involved, espically when they know there isn't anything wrong with the licence. I'll just apply for a new one and tell 'em to stick it if it ever gets to court which I assume is unlikley!

This post has been edited by xone: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 12:27
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andy_foster
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 12:34
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If the DVLA say that you can legally drive, and the police say that they'll kidnap your car again if you do, you need to make a complaint and escalate it to someone more senior within the police. Obviously, it would be helpful to have something in writing from the DVLA.


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"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 12:43
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 12:34) *
If the DVLA say that you can legally drive, and the police say that they'll kidnap your car again if you do, you need to make a complaint and escalate it to someone more senior within the police. Obviously, it would be helpful to have something in writing from the DVLA.



Indeed. Hopefully as of 12am tonight there won't be an issue. I just remember that the second time the car was taken the normal police didn't even run a PNC check, it was done after the traffic turned up and took the car. Procedure is paramount here in Witney.!
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 16:18
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Can anyone shed some light on the maximum penalty for failure to stop for a constable in uniform??

Many thanks.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 16:22
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Is this a new case, connected with your ongoing case, or just a random question?


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 16:43
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 16:22) *
Is this a new case, connected with your ongoing case, or just a random question?


Erm, A bit of both, Sorry to confuse you or anybody. It was mentioned they may report me for a faliure to stop for a uniformed police officer and wondered how this would affect my licence?
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Landshark
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 18:09
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QUOTE (xone @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 17:40) *
QUOTE (Landshark @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 15:54) *
Did the DVLA confirm that your licence was revoked rather than expired???

The PNC database does not show the status of a driving licence, this is held on the DVLA database which the police have access to. I would also question whether the counter staff at the police station actually checked against the database or just look at the expiry date on it!!!!! huh.gif

However, if it was only revoked in March this year then you , as has been pointed out, drive for up to 12 months!!



DVLA confirmed 3 times today that the licence was revoked.

It's a shame that the police can't use common sense anymore and have used the DVLA database as this may have saved me having my car seized twice this weekend.

Thank god for section 88 RTA 1988.

Looking at the brighter side of this situation, Had I not been pulled I may well have continued to drive unknowing that my licence was revoked and thus after March next year I'd have a useless licence and the situation would have been a lot worse.



I think you may have mis understood, when checks are done on your vehicle this is done on the DVLA database which would have shown your licence as revoked, and the date it was revoked.
I would be getting in contact with the sergeant and asking him to explain what is going on and getting something in writing from DVLA and printing off the relevant RTA sections!!!
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andy_foster
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 18:28
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The penalties for motoring offences are listed in Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
You can look it up on www.statutelaw.gov.uk

Without incriminating yourself, are you aware of any reasons why you might be accused of failing to stop?


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 19:19
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 18:28) *
Without incriminating yourself, are you aware of any reasons why you might be accused of failing to stop?


yep, was asked to move on by police, I replied that I was waiting for a fare which I'm allowed to do, they said I had to move on and I insisted that I was allowed to stop because I was driving a hackney licenced taxi. They then reveresed the police car behind mine and started to get out, I drove off realising that a ticket would outweigh the price of the fare. They didn't say that I must stop/turn engine off/wanted to speak to me/ or any indication they where getting out to speak to me. They also never chased me with blue lights but later when they caught up with me at my house they said they may be reporting me for failing to stop, read that as they are reporting me as there were 3 officers there and they were all saying different things that were confusing.
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captain swoop
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 19:27
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Well, you didn't fail to stop. you were stopped already and just complied with their instructions to move.
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 19:45
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 18:28) *
The penalties for motoring offences are listed in Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
You can look it up on www.statutelaw.gov.uk


Level 3 on the standard scale. Can't see any points in the points box, so I guess it's just a fine.
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xone
post Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 19:56
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QUOTE (Landshark @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 18:09) *
QUOTE (xone @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 17:40) *
QUOTE (Landshark @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 15:54) *
Did the DVLA confirm that your licence was revoked rather than expired???

The PNC database does not show the status of a driving licence, this is held on the DVLA database which the police have access to. I would also question whether the counter staff at the police station actually checked against the database or just look at the expiry date on it!!!!! huh.gif

However, if it was only revoked in March this year then you , as has been pointed out, drive for up to 12 months!!



DVLA confirmed 3 times today that the licence was revoked.

It's a shame that the police can't use common sense anymore and have used the DVLA database as this may have saved me having my car seized twice this weekend.

Thank god for section 88 RTA 1988.

Looking at the brighter side of this situation, Had I not been pulled I may well have continued to drive unknowing that my licence was revoked and thus after March next year I'd have a useless licence and the situation would have been a lot worse.



I think you may have mis understood, when checks are done on your vehicle this is done on the DVLA database which would have shown your licence as revoked, and the date it was revoked.
I would be getting in contact with the sergeant and asking him to explain what is going on and getting something in writing from DVLA and printing off the relevant RTA sections!!!



Nope, there is the PNC and there is the DVLA database that a police liasion officer has to ring up for. there are 2 differing database's, the PCN relys on the DVLA database but dosen't hold all the information that it needs. Hence this massive cock up. I'm only going by what DVLA have told me today.
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Sangamoura
post Wed, 11 Nov 2009 - 20:55
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What a pularva !

For the record, 2005 admittedly, but back then DVLA were hand writing endorsements on the paper counterpart of photo licences.

Ask me how I know cool.gif
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The Hood
post Wed, 11 Nov 2009 - 22:00
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Ok i have done some research here...

when the car was taken the first time was it taken from your home after the "Fail to stop"? If so you have no comeback on this as section 152 serious organised Crime act states unlicensed, uninsured driver or the vehicle fails to stop and found in 24 hours can be seized.

the second time being seized because your licence was revoked, you can make a civil claim to get the costs refunded but they will delay this until you get to court or 6 months passes. You have 12 months from date of revocation to sort out the issues After the 12 months your licence expires and then your fair game to them....





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Landshark
post Thu, 12 Nov 2009 - 18:13
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QUOTE (xone @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 19:56) *
QUOTE (Landshark @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 18:09) *
QUOTE (xone @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 17:40) *
QUOTE (Landshark @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 15:54) *
Did the DVLA confirm that your licence was revoked rather than expired???

The PNC database does not show the status of a driving licence, this is held on the DVLA database which the police have access to. I would also question whether the counter staff at the police station actually checked against the database or just look at the expiry date on it!!!!! huh.gif

However, if it was only revoked in March this year then you , as has been pointed out, drive for up to 12 months!!



DVLA confirmed 3 times today that the licence was revoked.

It's a shame that the police can't use common sense anymore and have used the DVLA database as this may have saved me having my car seized twice this weekend.

Thank god for section 88 RTA 1988.

Looking at the brighter side of this situation, Had I not been pulled I may well have continued to drive unknowing that my licence was revoked and thus after March next year I'd have a useless licence and the situation would have been a lot worse.



I think you may have mis understood, when checks are done on your vehicle this is done on the DVLA database which would have shown your licence as revoked, and the date it was revoked.
I would be getting in contact with the sergeant and asking him to explain what is going on and getting something in writing from DVLA and printing off the relevant RTA sections!!!



Nope, there is the PNC and there is the DVLA database that a police liasion officer has to ring up for. there are 2 differing database's, the PCN relys on the DVLA database but dosen't hold all the information that it needs. Hence this massive cock up. I'm only going by what DVLA have told me today.


Sorry your part right and i'm part wrong, the PNC gives the status of the licence, in this case this would be where the expired came from and then the DVLA database (which doesn't need the DVLA liason) would show it revoked with basic info, further info could be obtained via the DVLA liason.
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