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ziggy25
Posted on: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 14:02


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QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 14:50) *
OK, then at the end: I require you, therefore, to cancel the PCN forthwith and with immediate effect. Should you not do so, I require the following items.............................


Shall i relist the items i asked for at the end (notes, timepeace synchronisation etc)?
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686558 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 13:48


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Ok i have changed it to say that i am challenging the PCN instead of appealing it.

--------------------------

Ref: XXXX

To whom it may concern,

I was issued a PCN on the 29/03/2012 from yourselves on the grounds that the following contravention was belived to have occured: "01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I am challenging the PCN ticket on the following grounds:


1 The Contravention did not occur

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I pointed this out to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. He had already printed the ticket, attached it to my car and photographed it. As the timing is in dispute I require evidence showing that the CEO's timepiece was accurate and that he did not commence preparing the PCN before 16.01.

Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i also require the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepiece synchronisation - specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

2 The ticket was not issued in accordance with the London CEO's handbook

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should have issued the PCN before 16.02
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686556 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 13:01


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Group: Members
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Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


I just checked and i dont believe i kept the receipt. This is what i will be sending to them. Hopefully i will get a positive response from them.

--------------------------

Ref: XXXX

To whom it may concern,

I was issued a PCN on the 29/03/2012 from yourselves on the grounds that the following contravention was belived to have occured: "01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I wish to appeal the PCN ticket on the following grounds:


1 The Contravention did not occur

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I pointed this out to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. He had already printed the ticket, attached it to my car and photographed it. As the timing is in dispute I require evidence showing that the CEO's timepiece was accurate and that he did not commence preparing the PCN before 16.01.

Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i also require the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepiece synchronisation - specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

2 The ticket was not issued in accordance with the London CEO's handbook

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should have issued the PCN before 16.02
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686550 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 12:49


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Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


QUOTE (Gan @ Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 13:22) *
Out of interest, do you have a receipt from the shop to show that you would have been back at the car in time ?


No i dont think i have it. I will check later today.

Thanks
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686547 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 11:55


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Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


Ok i written the following appeal letter. Please advice if i should change anything.

Thanks in advance

------------------------------------------------------
Ref: XXXXXXXXX
To whom it may concern,

I was issued a PCN on the 29/03/2012 from yourselves on the grounds that the following contravention was belived to have occured: "01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours". I wish to appeal the PCN ticket on the following grounds:

1. The ticket was not issued in accordance to the London CEO's handbook.

The London CEO handbook states:

"b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm."

The ticket was issued at 16:01 but the CEO handbook states that CEOs should not issue a PCN less than two minutes before a restriction starts.

2. The CEO's timepeace was not accurate.

According to my watch, the time was exactly 16:00 when i got back to my car. I did mention this to the CEO at the time but he insisted that his watch was accurate. With this in mind, i wish to request that i see evidence showing that the CEO's timepeace was accurate. Bearing in mind that 16:00 ends at 16:00:59, i would like to see details of the CEO's notes, Traffic Management order and details of the CEO's timepeace synchronisation specifically how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepeace.

------------------------------------------------------
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686532 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 - 10:42


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Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


QUOTE (Bagshot @ Thu, 5 Apr 2012 - 18:40) *
Do they have any other pictures on the website? A longer shot showing the context of where your vehicle was parked? A shot of a sign showing the times of the yellow line? A shot of the car without the PCN?

Legally, they probably don't have to have a grace period. If they want to play it that way they are going to have to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the timepiece used to determine that it was 16:01 when they said it was 16:01 was accurate. They will need calibration and synchronisation records to the second. Bear in mind that it is 16:00 from 16:00:00 to 16:00:59 It does not become 16:01 until 16:01:00. Council are going to have to prove that at the material time the device used was not so much as one second fast. If it was a second fast, it was still 16:00 when they issued the PCN.

Let us know about the pictures. If that is all they have, I suspect it will be a pretty easy win.


The only other picture they have on the website is this one here (i dont know if they have other pictures not shown on the site):



So how should i approach this? On what grounds could i appeal this?

Thanks
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686514 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 - 14:35


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Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


QUOTE (Bagshot @ Sun, 1 Apr 2012 - 19:20) *
I'm guessing you were had for code 01 parking in a restricted etc....

There should be an observation time for this. Arguably issuing at a minute past doesn't really constitute observation.

The London CEO's handbook states:

b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if
a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then
a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then
no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm. It should be stressed
that a vehicle in such a situation does not have the right to
be in place for two minutes – this is not a grace period.

Ask for CEO's notes, Photographs, Traffic Management Order and details of CEO's timepiece synchronisation. Not generally what they are supposed to do, but how and when this particular CEO synchronised his timepiece, what with, when, and records of such.


According their website there is no grace period. See http://www.barnet.gov.uk/faq-parking-appeals-q3
Does the CEO handbook override what they say on their website?
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686277 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 - 13:22


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Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


Apologies for the late response guys. I finally managed to scan the ticket though one of the scans is not very clear (You have to view the full size to be able to read it).

I logged on to the barnet.gov.uk website as the ticket shows that you can log on and see the pictures that were taken. The picture is showing that it was taken at 16:03.

When i came out of the shop i told him i am only one minute late. I remember the ticket was coming out from his machine while i was talking to him and he placed the ticket on the car and then took the picture.

I am sure the ticket machine is not synchronised with the camera because it should not take 2 minutes to place the ticket on my windscreen and take the picture. What do you guys think? Can i challenge it?

Also, the time and date shown in the picture of the car looks a bit too sharp on the edges. I would have expected edges on the date and time to be soft as the rest of the image but it does not blend with the rest of the image.

Front


Back



Image

  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #686256 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 - 15:07


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Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


Ok will do that later today. Thanks
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #684616 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422

ziggy25
Posted on: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 - 14:55


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Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Member No.: 54,031


I parked my car on a single yellow line just before 16:00PM. The restriction on this road is that no parking is allowed between 16:00PM and 19:00PM but you can park at any other time. The road where the ticket was issued near Totteridge & Whetstone tube station (London Borough of Barnet).

I went in to the shop to buy a drink and came out seeing the parking attendant taking a picture of my car with the ticket on my windscreen. I told him that i am only one minute late and he was having none of it.

The ticket shows that it was issued at at 16:01 and that the car was observed from 16:00PM.

I am not sure if i should just pay it or challenge it. Isn't there some sort of grace period to allow people to get back to their car? What chance do i have if i do challenge it?
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #684613 · Replies: 27 · Views: 7,422


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